Using Miroslav with N3

[Lester]

One of the reasons I was attracted to Notion's website is that I had seen references the just-announced Notion Miroslav SLE on another board, and when I realized that Notion 3 was already set up to handle Miroslav's articulations I got the demo (as Miroslav is the symphonic sample set I use)...after about an hour with it I was ready to start using it as my primary composing tool. I ordered the full software the next day, as I'm hoping to get Vienna SE at some point anyway(and would love to throw EWQL into the mix as well...).

As far as using Miroslav with a limited number of instruments goes...N3 works great (I have a dual core 2.25ghz/3gig/vista running reaper as my DAW). the problem I encounter is that while running notion 3 I find that there is a relatively low number of intstruments one can run from miroslav without the resource problems beginning because each staff has one instance of Miroslav open. Now, Miroslav itself has it's own little 16 channel mixer so that when using it in Reaper for smaller ensembles one only has to open one instance of it...using one track with Miroslav open and running other tracks through it as midi-channel specific tracks. I haven't used Cubase or any of the others in a while, but I assume they all have similar ways to do this. Most of my orchestral compositions only require 2 or 3 (4 max) instances of miroslav to be open...that gives me 32 to 64 tracks...enough to put different articulations in for instruments that need it. Reaper has no problem handling 4 instances of Reaper, loaded full with 16 instruments each.

As far as I can tell, there's no way to do this in Notion3 (if there is I'd love to know about it), which is why I've been having to bring midi data back and forth. For larger ensembles I write mock-ups in Notion and then export to Reaper to hear them played through Miroslav (this is one reason I am hoping for the midi issues to get solved so I don't have use Finale to clean up all the midi stuff).

What I would love to see N3 do is have a setting where for instruments that don' have multiple articulations associated with them you could run their associated mixer channels (to which you could assign midi channels) through an insert with Miroslav open in it. This way, for instruments that you want to take advantage of multiple articulations you could let N3 do the work for you. For other instruments, you could route them through the insert, saving resources. In this way, one could run full orchestras in N3 using Miroslav with a laptop like mine. This would truly take away the need for another DAW, at least for me. The limited midi-editing capabilites in Notion are usually enough for me...sometimes I would want to bring something into Reaper to work on in more detail, but by and large, if I can record and play it in N3 it can stay there.

Anyway, just thought I'd through this out there. Not sure how many other Miroslav users there are here...any input would be appreciated.

[ulrik]

Hi Lester!

I am also using miroslav with notion, I have to say I am a new user of both Notion and Miro so I don't have that much experience yet. However I've noticed the same issue as you mentioned.
Notion open one instance of miro plugin for every instrument which makes it very hard for my computer to manage, I would love to see more of ensemble presets that make use of all Miroslav 16 channels in one instance of the plugin, and also an easy way to handle the presets so that I can store my own presets inside Notion, if it's possible.

Cheers / Ulrik

[wcreed51]

Have you looked at the tutorials for using multi channel VSTi?

[Lester]

Thanks for the responses...

I have looked at the VST tutorials...but unless I am missing something (which is very possible), I don't think N3 as it stands can do what I need it to do with Miroslav (i.e., utilizing Miroslav's own mixer to help limit the number of instances open, thus enabling my 3gig laptop to handle full orchestral arrangements).

This seems like a key feature to enable use of Miroslav for full orchestral arrangements within N3 without using a DAW. I'm assuming the same applies to the new Miroslav SLE.

As far as I understand things (and I fully admit, I'm just a N3 beginner), if eventually the rewire feature enables one to use Reaper (my preferred DAW) as a midi-slave, then perhaps that will solve the problem (as long as individual N3 tracks can be assigned specific midi channels and routed to individual midi-specific tracks within Reaper that can then be routed to VST specific "master" tracks within Reaper). But as I understand it, right now, one cannot send midi information via rewire from N3 to Reaper. One of the advantages of using Reaper, as opposed to other DAWs, is that, as far as I can understand things, Reaper is the only DAW that can function as a rewire slave. And in fact, Reaper does seem to work quite well working with N3 when triggering audio only. However, as it stands, it appears that N3 cannot send midi info to Reaper via rewire.

Anyway, I'm just trying to assess whether I have a clue about any of this.

Like I've said in other posts, N3 is quite an amazing compositional tool. If it can actually be made to take full advantage of Miroslav's functionality as a low-resource hog orchestral software...well then it will, in my eyes, be even more amazing.

[Lester]

OK....I went back to the manual and went through the instructions for using a multi-channel vsti. But after putting about 2 hours into trying to do it, going over the instructions again and again, I can only conclude that it doesn't work for Miroslav. The "original" channel plays the correct instrument...but the other channels play the piano sound....no matter what I do.

At this point in the morning (2:20am) I might normally assume I'm doing something wrong. But given the fact that the software I got came without several of the standard instruments (acoustic guitar and a couple of the saxes...and those are only the ones I've discovered missing so far) and with the midi situation that seems to be full of problems and the fact that i've notice some other issues using miroslav, like trying without success to change instruments from the staff settings dialog box...my gut tells me that this multi-channel vsti implementation is not functioning correctly, at least for miroslav.

Has anyone else out there tried to do this (i.e., get multi channels working...using one staff with several attached "basic staffs" and then using the "change instrument" dialog box) with miroslav? Would love to hear from you if you have.

thanks and good night (at last).

[Admin]

WOW....sounds like you've had quite the journey with Miroslav and N3 today

I'll look into this with Ben today and see if it is functioning correctly and let you know if "you're doing something wrong" or if the issue is something else.

-Kyle

[Brahamnesik]

Hello,

I've just downloaded the Notion 3 demo and I'm giving it a try with Philharmonik. I've seen that in the MP vsti window, there's a "slow" expression on channel 3 (for strings, horns...). For some reason I can't trigger this articulation and this could be very handy for some mellower parts.

I've tried every nuances and articulations, crescendi and so on but couldn't manage to trigger "Slow" expression. Do you guys have any ideas? Thank you!

[Brahamnesik]

No one knows?

[Brahamnesik]

Answer: right click the note!

[jmkmusic]

@Lester:

Hi there! I used to have exactly the same problems as you using SLE for Miroslav Philharmonik, and apparently I've tried the very same solutions - however the only feasible option turned out to be an upgrade to Notion 3 (full version).

Unlike SLE, you can easily create a generic Philharmonik instrument with N3 by choosing it from the list of available VST instruments (instead of choosing a specific Miroslav preset). This 'Philharmonik' instrument works just like you'd expect, i. e. it's multi-timbral holding up to 16 independent patches. These patches can then be used on any staff simply by inserting an instrument change specifiying 'Philharmonik' as the instrument and the MIDI channel corresponding to the patch. Moreover, the said 'Philharmonik' VSTi may be created not only via Score Setup but directly in the Instrument Change window as well - meaning you don't even need to create a staff for it , it's just there, hiding in the background.

Having said that, I guess you may never have to resort to that kind of workaround with N3 anyway, since the included sound library is really quite good - some patches (esp. the strings) are downright excellent, others are at least perfectly adaequate in an orchestral context, and they're real memory-savers compared to Philharmonik. As for me, I now only use the Miroslav sounds for orchestral instruments that have to stand out in an arrangement, and I haven't run into any memory problems ever since. Besides, the three libraries (Philharmonik, N3 and N2, which is also included) not only blend very well, but actually complement each other beautifully - chances are, if one lib fails you with a certain patch, one of the others steps in.

Hope this helps!

Best regards
Joerg