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Dynamics!

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Re: Dynamics!

Postby Admin » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:32 pm

thorrild wrote:
Admin wrote:Here is the situation:

[snip]
In this example, I have decreased the dynamic level of the F by reducing it's dB by 1.5dB.
[snip]
Hope this helps,

-Admin

Not that this has anything whatsoever to do with the OP, but I couldn't resist, really.

Really...

Those of us who read the User Guide for at least 2 hours every night before lights out have to point out that on page 10.14, it says clearly that each integer represents a dynamic level, not 1 decibel. Dynamic levels are defined thus: mp-1 = p; mp-5 = ppppp and mf+1 = f; mf+5 = fffff. Levels beyond mp-5 and mf+5 are not possible, but they can be adjusted within these limits in increments as small as 2 decimal points. The edited dynamic "f+1.5" will play back at the loudness point between ff and fff.

With only the best of intentions,
Thorrild


Thank you for the clarification. What you are saying is correct and I knew there was something screwy about what was happening.

So, actually, 0.5=1.5dB because each dynamic level is 3dB of separation. Sorry for the slip-up.

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Re: Dynamics!

Postby wcreed51 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:48 am

So... Is the dynamic placement bug in the queue to get fixed?
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Re: Dynamics!

Postby Admin » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:38 pm

Yes.

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Re: Dynamics!

Postby wcreed51 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:43 pm

:)
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Re: Dynamics!

Postby idiotSavant » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:50 pm

For me, this is not a problem, because I "pump" everything with a variety of compressors, limiters, or leveling amplifiers


Surfwhammy, your posts are always so thorough. One issue that I've been struggling with is dynamic range from Notion. My recordings are always way too quiet in the piano passages and then blast through the louder forte ones. One of these days I truly expect the cones to explode out of my monitors, or else I'm going to damage my hearing. Not good either way, but what are your thoughts on techniques for controlling this? I don't want to lose strong dynamic range by overcompressing, and I've always heard that classical purist engineers avoid compression like the plague, but at the same time when I listen to "real" classical recordings I don't hear the same kind of extremes that I get from Notion. Without being too specific as far as products, can you elaborate on what you said above?

Thanks!

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Re: Dynamics!

Postby DaddyO » Wed May 01, 2013 10:37 am

idiotSavant wrote:
Surfwhammy... can you elaborate...?


:chuckles:

This is like throwing chum in the water near a great white shark and asking it if it can feed.
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Re: Dynamics!

Postby idiotSavant » Wed May 01, 2013 7:36 pm

DaddyO wrote:
idiotSavant wrote:
Surfwhammy... can you elaborate...?


:chuckles:

This is like throwing chum in the water near a great white shark and asking it if it can feed.


hehe... :shock:
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Re: Dynamics!

Postby Surfwhammy » Thu May 02, 2013 5:22 am

idiotSavant wrote:
Surfwhammy wrote:For me, this is not a problem, because I "pump" everything with a variety of compressors, limiters, or leveling amplifiers


Without being too specific as far as products, can you elaborate on what you said above?



Thanks for the kind words and an outstanding question, which I will try to answer as succinctly as possible, although "best wishes" on succinctness and not being too specific . . . :)

OVERVIEW AND BACKGROUND

As is the case with the current 32-bit IK Multimedia virtual instrument sampled sound libraries, the NOTION 3 and NOTION 4 sampled sound libraries tend to have a wide dynamic range, which is good and logical in some respects but as you have observed can be a bit problematic for certain musical genres, where in particular this happens with Miroslav Philharmonik (IK Multimedia), and I think the reason is that what I call "Classical" composers tend to be quite enamored with dynamics, which is in great contrast to my perspective most of the time (specifically that using a wide range of dynamics is vastly annoying at best) . . .

Basically, I want to hear all the instruments, and it does no good when for example the trumpets are playing forte but the flutes are playing pianissimo, because no normal person can hear the flutes, hence the perspective here in the sound isolation studio is that if you cannot hear it, then why bother to compose it . . .

In other words, if it is a good part, then let people hear it, because otherwise in the digital music production universe all it really does is add background noise, hiss, and so forth!

But perhaps most importantly, it all is based on the studio monitor system, and the fact of the matter is that with the exceptions of people who have done professional sound reinforcement work, formally trained acoustic engineers and physicists, and a few other people, nobody has a clue regarding what a calibrated full-range studio monitor system is, let alone how to get one, and the consequence of this is that people have problems doing arranging, producing, audio engineering, mixing, and mastering but have no idea why. And such folks also do not understand the fact that studio quality headphones cannot be used for mixing and mastering, primarily because what the left ear hears is completely and totally isolated from what the right ear hears . . .

The calibrated full-range studio monitor stuff is explained in vast detail in one of my ongoing topics in the IK Multimedia FORUM, and I encourage you to read it . . .

The Fabulous Affordable Studio Monitor System Project (IK Multimedia FORUM)

The succinct version is that the normal range of human hearing is 20-Hz to 20,000-Hz, which I extend to include subsonic deep bass down to 10-Hz, which is felt more than heard, but so what . . .

So what!

And if you expect to be able to mix and master music, then you need to be able to hear what is recorded as accurately as possible, and this only happens when you listen to the music being reproduced by a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, because otherwise it is like trying to paint a full-color landscape or portrait with a black Crayola crayon and a white Crayola crayon . . .

The way this applies directly to using compressors, expanders, limiters, leveling amplifiers, and so forth is that without a calibrated full-range studio monitor system what happens is that people use these types of signal processors to attempt to make the music sound as if it were being reproduced via a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, and this does not work, at all . . .

Yet another key aspect of a calibrated full-range studio monitor system is that the final mixing needs to be done at approximately 85 dB SPL as measured using a correctly calibrated sound pressure level (SPL) meter, where the "calibrated" aspect refers to ensuring that the studio monitor system has a flat equal loudness curve across the full-range of frequencies (20-Hz to 20,000-Hz), which for the lower frequencies requires "big and heavy" loudspeakers and is the reason that there are no commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) full-range studio monitor systems currently available anywhere on this planet, since it costs too much to manufacture and to ship "big and heavy" stuff . . .

It is not particularly difficult to devise a practical strategy for creating a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, but it requires understanding the basic rules of acoustic physics, as well as the way COTS equipment manufacturers market their products, which for the most part involves egregious sneaky weaseling to the point that a decade or so ago in the US the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) had to issue special regulations for audio equipment specifications, which includes criminal penalties for violating the rules, and even then the COTS equipment manufacturers devised various ways to bypass the rules, which among other things involves doing testing using a 1,000-Hz tone, which is approximately the root frequency or pure sine way of the C6 (1,046.5-Hz) at the 20th fret of a guitar on the high-pitch "e" string . . .

THOUGHTS

Once you have a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, one of the first things you will discover is that mixing and mastering does not require heavy compressing, limiting, leveling, expanding, and so forth . . .

Instead, if an instrument or vocal is a bit too soft, then a tiny bit of dynamic range adjustment is sufficient, where the primary rule is that less is better, unless you specifically want to create a special effect based on pushing or "pumping" an instrument or vocal track, which can be useful and is easy to hear on lead vocals from the 1950s and 1960s, where there is an unique vocal tone obtained by a combination of a condenser microphone, compressor/limiter, reverberation unit, and perhaps a tape echo unit, where a key aspect of the vocal tone involves using vacuum tubes to add a bit of melodic "blur" and saturation, as heard in the following songs . . .

"Dream Lover" (Bobby Darin) -- YouTube music video

[NOTE: The audio is excellent, but it is not the audio from the motion picture. And you can hear the "slapback" echo unit working in the background every so often . . . ]

"Runaround Sue" (Dion & The Belmonts) -- YouTube music video

"You Don't Own Me" (Leslie Gore) -- YouTube music video

"In Dreams" (Roy Orbison) -- YouTube music video

"Fame And Fortune" (Elvis Presley) -- YouTube music video

The fact is that no human being on this planet sounds like that, and it is a carefully constructed audio illusion, where the fundamental requirement is that the producer needs to hear the music and singing accurately, which only happens with a calibrated full-range studio monitor system . . .

Signal processors and equipment (compressors, limiters, leveling amplifiers, expanders, reverberation units, echo units, and condenser microphones) are vastly important, but to configure and to adjust them correctly you need to hear exactly what they are doing, and the musicians and singers also need to know what they are doing, which is particularly important for singers, since the key is to "work" the signal processors and equipment . . .

Regarding specific signal processors, I use the White 2A Leveling Amplifier on most instruments; Vintage Tube Program Equalizer EQP-1A on bass instruments; Brickwall Limiter on drums and some instruments; and Vintage Tube Compressor Limiter Model 670 on some vocals and non-guitar and non-keyboard instruments for its melodic properties, where all these are IK Multimedia products in the T-RackS CS Grand product line, and most of the time I use them with very gentle settings, although when necessary I use the Brickwall Limiter and White 2A Leveling Amplifier to "pump" certain instruments, but as noted (see above) what you discover when you have a calibrated full-range studio monitor system with a flat equal loudness curve at 85 dB SPL is that you only need to a tiny bit of signal processing enhancement as a general rule . . .

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I also use Opto Compressor and Black 76 Limiting Amplifier (IK Multimedia) for special purposes, and I use Pro-C and Saturn (FabFilter Software Instruments) for "ducking" and vacuum tube saturation, respectively . . .

Image

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~ ~ ~ Continued in the next post ~ ~ ~
Last edited by Surfwhammy on Thu May 02, 2013 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dynamics!

Postby Surfwhammy » Thu May 02, 2013 4:52 pm

~ ~ ~ Continued from the previous post ~ ~ ~

SIGNAL PROCESSOR TECHNOLOGY

It is important to understand that IK Multimedia focuses on creating highly accurate emulations of signal processors using detailed measurements of actual physical hardware devices, and the measurements include circuit component characteristics and behaviors, which is quite different from designing signal processors from scratch . . .

For example, the IK Multimedia Vintage Program Equalizer EQP-1A signal processor plug-in is a digital emulation of the industry classic Pultec Program Equalizer Model EQP-1A . . .

Image

As is the case with most of the vintage signal processors, they originally were designed for use in broadcasting either radio or television audio, as well as in sound reinforcement for concerts, motion picture theaters,and so forth, where the general design goals were three-fold:

(1) Satisfy the various broadcasting requirements mandated by federal broadcasting regulators (for example, this is done by the Federal Communications Commission [FCC] in the US) . . .

(2) Protect various related broadcasting and sound reinforcement equipment by keeping signals within acceptable ranges . . .

(3) Achieve (1) and (2) in a melodic and graceful way by making thoughtful modifications to recorded and live performance audio . . .

As an example, one of the primary uses for limiters in sound reinforcement is to constrain audio signals so that any spikes or exceptionally strong signals are prevented from passing through the signal processing chain to power amplifiers, which if not constrained would overload the power amplifiers and loudspeakers and likely cause damage or catastrophic equipment failures . . .

However, since broadcast engineers and sound reinforcement engineers also work in recording studios, it was inevitable that they would do experiments with the various signal processors to determine whether the signal processors did something useful for recording, mixing, and mastering, which often was the case, so these types of signal processors started as devices for use in broadcasting and sound reinforcement but found uses in recording studios once producers and audio engineers discovered that the signal processors could be used to enhance music and singing, and it is important to understand that the ways these signal processors are used in a recording studio are different from the ways they are used in broadcasting and sound reinforcement, where in particular the focus is on melodic characteristics and behaviors, some of which are a bit subtle with respect to finding and then adjusting "sweet spots" in the various parameter combinations . . .

With the caveat that I understand the importance of dynamics in performances by trained vocalists and musicians playing real instruments, everything changes when such performances are recorded, because while they are sung and played by real people using their singing voices and real instruments, respectively, once the material is captured by a microphone or an electromagnetic device like a guitar pickup, it becomes electromagnetic and when it is digitized, it becomes a set of binary data bits, hence while it probably is a rare treat to hear a chamber orchestra or string ensemble in a carefully designed and acoustically treated listening room, once it becomes electromagnetic and then digital a lot of what makes sense in the real world tends to make little if any practical sense in the universe of digital music production, because the rules are very different . . .

Explained another way, most if not all of the aforementioned signal processors came into being as a way for broadcasters to introduce a bit of control after the fact to constrain composers, conductors, and performers who tended to be a bit obsessed with extraordinarily wide ranges of dynamics, which might be fine for certain types of live performances but for broadcasting is a major problem that has the vast potential to damage broadcasting equipment and by doing so to jeopardize the ability of broadcasters to meet the various licensing requirements mandated by governmental broadcasting laws and regulations . . .

And since broadcasters are not insensitive fools, they favor signal processors that allow them to meet the various broadcasting standards and requirements but in ways that are melodic and as minimally invasive as possible, where as an example instead of arbitrarily destroying dynamics, the preferred solution is to constrain dynamics to a specific range where there are no extremes, and in this respect it is useful to understand that an electric guitar is the perfect electromagnetic device with respect to being ideal for recording in every respect, while the human singing voice has a dynamic range which is so wide that for recording it is difficult challenge, at best . . .

In other words, an electric guitar basically is either ON or OFF in terms of dynamic range and frequency range, while the human singing voice can range from a nearly inaudible whisper to an ear piercing scream in an instant, which for example can destroy the delicate parts of a $10,000 (US) condenser microphone with one quaver . . .

CALIBRATED STUDIO MONITOR SYSTEM AND THE STUDIO


And it also is important to understand that until you have a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, there is no way to determine accurately whether there are any problems with virtual instruments and their corresponding sampled sound libraries . . .

In some but not all instances, studio quality headphones can provide clues, but you need a calibrated studio monitor system to determine what is happening accurately with a high degree of confidence . . .

Explained another way, your mixing and mastering studio needs to be a finely tuned instrument, which includes the acoustic characteristics and behaviors of the room itself; the various digital music production equipment (computer, hardware, software, and so forth); and the calibrated studio monitor system, all of which is a Gestalt where everything needs to be good, and until everything is good you are spinning wheels . . .

I designed and built the Surfwhammy sound isolation studio, and it is a room within a room within room, where the innermost room sits on a fully floated floor of compressed rubber made from ground car and truck tires, where part of the logic is that a single nail or woodscrew is sufficient to transfer audio energy from outside inside, as is the case with a hole in the wall which is 1/4" in diameter, so the general idea is to isolate the innermost room from the outside world, and the floor, walls, and ceilings are insulated in specially design ways, which includes using Helmholtz resonating panels, Helmholtz resonators, various absorbers and diffusers, and so forth and so on, where the most recent improvement involved doing some measurements; determining that there was a low-frequency standing wave at approximately 70-Hz; and then correcting the problem by putting six rolls of fiberglass insulation in different sizes and five "cubes" of compressed cellulose insulation in various locations, including the corners, floor, and between the loudspeaker and subwoofer cabinets . . .

In other words, all your equipment--including the calibrated studio monitor system--can be stellar, but if the acoustic characteristics and behaviors of the room are bad, then what you hear will not be accurate . . .

SUMMARY

Everyone has goals, and if your goal is to create songs that have the potential to compete with the songs created by major music labels, then one of the realities is that you are competing with companies which routinely have recordings mixed and mastered by audio specialists who have multimillion dollar mixing and mastering studios that are designed and calibrated by trained architects and acoustic engineers using the best equipment available on this planet, which from one perspective makes it an unachievable goal for most people, but the other and much preferred perspective is based on the simple fact that all their elaborate and wildly funded efforts eventually are broadcast by a radio station or sold as digital songs at the iTunes Store, where you can play them on your car audio system, computer, iPad, iPhone, iPod, or whatever playing device suits your fancy, which tends strongly to suggest (a) that if you can play it on a computerized device and it sounds great, then (b) you should be able to record, mix, and master your songs using a digital music production system in such a way that they also sound great . . .

Surfwhammy wrote:For me, this is not a problem, because I "pump" everything with a variety of compressors, limiters, or leveling amplifiers . . .


There are different ways to read what I write at any given time, and while for some songs I "pump" all the instruments and singing, there are levels to "pumping", and it can range from a tiny bit to a lot, and it also depends on the specific instrument or vocal track, where for example I love snare drum rimshots that "pop", and it requires intense "pumping" as well as a particular type of plate reverberation to make a snare drum rimshot "pop", but other instruments might need to be constrained, so it depends on what works best for the particular instrument or vocal track, as well as how everything fits into the overall mix, and you determine this by listening . . .

In this respect, the primary rule is that "less is nearly always better" when it comes to having a bit of FUN with signal processing and special effects, which makes it like building a miniature ship inside a glass bottle, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :)
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Re: Dynamics!

Postby idiotSavant » Fri May 03, 2013 12:55 pm

Fabulous, as always, Surfwhammy. Thanks for the (as usual) in-depth and thorough response. And to think that my wife gives me grief for spending $150 on some new VSL software...

:lol:

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