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Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby ccmusicman » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:46 pm

Ok, before I get started, I want to apologize. I need to vent, badly, and I feel this is the best place to do it...and provide feedback to Notion Music from a very frustrated and disappointed customer.

This morning I was gleeful about getting Notion 3 in the mail. I ordered it yesterday, with over night shipping, after reading rave reviews (on this forum and elsewhere). My initial impression was that this software would replace Finale and Sonar, giving me ultimate ease in composing.

I'm an old fashioned composer. I write with a pen and paper a lot. I own like 5 upgrades of Finale. But Finale is horrible for playback. So I invest in Sonar. But I'm a guitarist by nature, so playing a keyboard...well, forget about it.

In essence, based on what I read, I would fire up Notion and start writing...and my music would play back and actually sound good.

Since I own EW Gold play, and everywhere I read (including this forum), that Notion 3 is already easily set up with EW Gold/Plat.

While this is *SOMEWHAT* true, I spent over six frustrating hours trying to get it set up so it would actually run correctly. However, I finally get it working and I'm overjoyed. I fire up a few samples of EW and I'm blown away.

Then I try to load up a full Orchestral template so I can get to serious writing...And it falls apart:

Why?

32 BIT PROGRAMMING.

For real? Is this 2005?

Notion music, why on earth did you not include a 64 bit option? Notion is worthless to me now. I can load no more than 7 lite EW patches with jbridge, with the 32 big plug, slightly more. Basically, at best I can load 5 winds and 4 brass. No strings. No perc. No key's.

I go on to do some research and I find out that with Rewire and Bidule, I could load it all up. But then I would lose the preset information.
But that would completely negate my reason for purchasing, which is the presets.

I want to say I can load up a section of instruments and start writing. It's amazing, I love it. But it ends there. For me to actually accomplish a full Orchestral score I would have to write each section separately. Or use LSO samples. But since I own EW Play - forget it. Those samples sound like garbage compared to the EW stuff. And I was thinking about getting VSL since Notion supports it...but no way.

I don't know what it takes to program a 64 bit version. But until Notion Music gets with the times (Sonar now has 64 bit version, Cubase has 64 bit version), I will not purchase another piece of software from Notion Music. :(

Rob
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby wcreed51 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:00 am

Neither Finale or Sibelius are 64 bit either at this point. Notion has stated that they intend to release an x64 version, but have not promised a release date.

In the mean time, you might sketch things out with the LSO instruments, then create a final performance section by section with EW. Or do what serious composers have done for the past many years: use multiple computers to spread the memory and processor load.

Why use jbridge? There’s a 32 bit version of Play that you should be able to download.
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby ccmusicman » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:14 am

The problem isn't my hardware.

I have 16 gigs of memory. I have a 64 bit OS, 64 bit sound card.

When I run Sonar 8.5 64, I can load 2 full orchestra's and be sitting at around 9 gig's. I tested it today just to see the comparison.

My computer was built for 64 bit composing.

Finale is 32 bit, like you say. That's WHY I purchased Notion. Right on the back of the box Notion says "64 bit compatible". Not only that, when you read posts from dev's. about how quick and easy it is to sit down and start composing, with little to no tweaking, with EW and VSL supported and already preset, I totally assumed it would be a 64 bit host. I was shocked when I found out otherwise.

Then when I learned all workaround's sacrifice the presets OR require hours of reprogramming, I was disgusted.

Sure, you may be able to sit down and compose for a full orchestra using LSO, but why support EWQL or VSL if you can't load more than just a few instruments? Only a true 64 bit host can.

The reason I purchased was: Supposed 64 bit support, supposed easy integration with the big boy's (VSL, EW)...while those ARE "true", they are, I believe, grossly misrepresented.

I suppose I'll wait for notion to come out with their magical 64 bit host. Until then, Notion will sit and collect virtual dust.

Rob
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby Erufailon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:57 am

That's exactly why I use the 4 midi-outs as I suggested in your other thread. This way I can load all the KS patches and 1 DXF patch for all the instruments, and an EW piano, some percussion, and I still have 16 channels for other stuff, like stormdrum, and it all fits into my 8GB of RAM. If you can think just a little bit as a programmer, it can be done, otherwise, you have to wait for them to release an x64 version.
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby pcartwright » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:05 am

Erufailon,

Were you able to use the custom rules files once you chose to send everything through the MIDI out channels?
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby wcreed51 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:26 am

"64 bit compatible" means it will run on an x64 system, not that it's 64 bit.
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby Erufailon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:46 am

pcartwright wrote:Erufailon,

Were you able to use the custom rules files once you chose to send everything through the MIDI out channels?


Yep, though presently it seems to have a problem of ot outputting hairpin cc data, which I remember working before, but other than that it works fine.
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby pcartwright » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:53 pm

So how do you set up the tracks to out put with a given set of rules? Do you add tracks with the given templates (i.e. EWQL Trumpet or GPO Flute) and then change the out put in the track options to one of the MIDI channels? Or is it more basic than that?
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby Erufailon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:18 pm

I just add external midi tracks, and use my own .prules file in the rules folder where the score is saved.
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Re: Apologies ahead of time...this isn't pretty.

Postby ben » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:27 pm

Hi Rob,

As the person who's going to be heading up this work, I can assure you - we really want a 64-bit version out too. We are trying to get to as many requests and bug fixes as we can.

We've been careful to keep our code compatible with 32-bit and 64-bit systems, but there's just more work involved before we can release this. I can't give a schedule right now, but we'll post on the forum when we have beta builds available.

We also have some new templates coming out that support a full orchestra with the 32-bit plugin. I'll let Lubo post more on this when our update comes out.

VSL is a pretty different story. Because of their memory server, we don't have a problem loading a full orchestra setup.

Ben Singer
NOTION Music
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