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Notion 3 ReWire

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Notion 3 ReWire

Postby DanteUruzu » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:01 pm

Hello, I'm using Notion 3 and am trying to set up ReWire. I'm using Cubase 5 (32 bit) as the host and Notion 3 as the slave. The problem is when I start up Cubase and go to the Devices menu to select Notion Rewire, it is not there. May someone please help me? Thank you!
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby wcreed51 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:10 pm

You put a check in the box to enable ReWire on the audio tab of the Preference dialog?
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby DanteUruzu » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:12 pm

Indeed I did.
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby Surfwhammy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:56 am

DanteUruzu wrote:Indeed I did.


ReWire is a bit finicky with respect to configuration, parameters, settings, and so forth . . .

Sometimes, it helps to close everything and to do a clean reboot, followed by opening NOTION (3 or 4) and toggling the "Enable ReWire" option, which is found on the "Audio" tab of NOTION "Preferences . . ." dialog, where "toggling" refers to unchecking the "Enable ReWire" option; closing the "Preferences . . ." dialog; quitting NOTION; and then restarting NOTION, followed by checking the "Enable ReWire" option, which then causes NOTION to reset its ReWire information, although this also happens if you just uncheck and then check the option, at least some of the time, but I prefer the "uncheck-quit-restart-check" strategy . . .

[NOTE: I do everything on the Mac, but the general ReWire stuff is the same conceptually . . . ]

The order for starting applications is very important, and you want to start Cubase first, which makes it the ReWire host controller. Once Cubase is started, you will start NOTION, which makes NOTION a ReWire slave . . .

This is the link to the detailed ReWire configuration instructions from Propellerhead Software for using Reason with Cubase 4.0 via ReWire, where Reason is a Propellerhead Software self-contained digital music production system. It is for an earlier version of Cubase, but it should provide some useful clues . . .

[NOTE: ReWire is the industry standard interapplication audio communication protocol developed by Propellerhead Software, so testing it with Reason is a good strategy, since Reason is the gold standard that applications use for testing their specific implementations of ReWire. If you download the current version of Reason (v6.5), then it is helpful to understand that it uses ReWire 2, which is the new version of ReWIre that supports both 32-bit and 64-bit ReWire, but not at the same time. NOTION 3 uses the previous version of ReWire, which was 32-bit only, but as I recall ReWire 2 should work, but regardless you can download ReWire 1.7, which will be the correct version of ReWIre for NOTION 3 if for some reason ReWire 2 does not work. The Reason 6.5 DEMO is approximately 3.3GB, but it is a fascinating digital music production system, and it is great for doing ReWire testing, where Reason 6.5 only functions as a ReWire slave, which also is useful to know . . . ]

Using ReWire with Cubase 4.0 and Reason (Propellerhead Software)

This is the link the ReWire 1.7, which is the correct ReWire infrastructure for NOTION 3 . . .

ReWire 1.7 (Propellerhead Software)

This is the link to the Reason 6.5 DEMO, which is approximately 3.3GB . . .

[NOTE: Reason 6.5 is most useful for more modern popular music genres, but it has some surprisingly good strings which are sampled in the style created by George Martin and the audio engineers at Abbey Road Studios for the Beatles, which basically involves extremely close microphone placement often to the point of annoying the violinists, and other string players, where this technique is heard for example on "Eleanor Rigby" . . . ]

Reason 6.5 DEMO (Propellerhead Software)

"Eleanor Rigby" (Beatles) -- YouTube music video

For NOTION 4, ReWire 2 is installed by the NOTION 4 installer, but downloading and installing Reason 6.5 is a way to ensure that you have ReWire 2 correctly installed . . .

And for reference, at present the current version of Cubase only supports 32-bit ReWire, so it will not do 64-bit ReWire 2 with NOTION 4 . . .

Regarding using Reason as a test application for ReWIre verification, the specific value is that if your Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application works with Reason, then this verifies that the ReWire infrastructure is correct, at which time it is just a matter of configuring everything correct for doing ReWire with NOTION, where in some instances other DAW applications do not necessarily implement ReWIre correctly, which is another aspect of ReWIre that causes a bit of confusion . . .

In other words, there are three essential parts to ReWire, where the infrastructure is provided by Propellerhead Software, but each of the ReWire enabled applications implements its part of ReWire technology, where these are the other two parts, since the ReWire host controller application needs to implement its part of ReWire technology and the ReWire slave application needs to implement its part of ReWire technology . . .

On the Mac, NOTION implements its part of ReWire technology correctly, as does Propellerhead Software (of course), but the other application(s) involved in a ReWire session need to implement their respective parts of ReWire technology for everything to work accurately, correctly, and smoothly, and everything is highly time-sensitive . . .

And since doing ReWire involves interapplication communication as well as operating system internals, if something is not exactly correct, then it tends to be best to quit all the applications and to do a reboot to clear memory cache and so forth, because in some instances an incorrectly coded application-side implementation of ReWire can result in Dynamic Link Libraries (DLL) and other system types of software components not unloading or whatever due to incorrectly handled error exceptions and so forth, where the only practical way to clear such thing is to do a reboot, where in some scenarios if a ReWire enabled application crashes, there might be some stuff that persists in memory but really should have been unloaded, and in this scenario the operating system will "reuse" the stuff that incorrectly persists in memory, and you will get errors when there actually should be no errors, which is one way to explain what can happen in a general way that is at least "ballpark" for practical purposes, and this also happens on the Mac, which is virtually mind-boggling, since at least in theory it never should happen on the Mac, except that in some scenarios it definitely happens on the Mac . . .

SUMMARY

As noted (see above), ReWire is a bit finicky, and this is the case because there is so much stuff happening behind the scenes, so the key is to discover the correct way to configure everything, and since the specific documentation on doing ReWire is sparse at best, it usually requires doing some experiments to discover how everything needs to be configured, where some the experiments are a bit frustrating, but if you persist, eventually you will discover the correct way to configure everything, and then ReWire works very nicely in the scenario where the ReWire applications correctly implement ReWire, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :)
Last edited by Surfwhammy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby DanteUruzu » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:09 pm

Thank you Surfwhammy for the great reply! I will try out the things you suggested and let you know if I was able to solve my problem!

Edit: Ok, I tried your suggestions to no avail :( Cubase didn't even have Reason ReWire under the devices menu after I installed Reason. :(
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby Surfwhammy » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:22 am

DanteUruzu wrote:Thank you Surfwhammy for the great reply! I will try out the things you suggested and let you know if I was able to solve my problem!

Edit: Ok, I tried your suggestions to no avail :( Cubase didn't even have Reason ReWire under the devices menu after I installed Reason. :(


This is one of the advantages of starting with Reason 6.5 (Propellerhead Software) when discovering how to configure ReWire correctly, because it establishes a baseline or foundation for reference purposes . . .

The most probable explanation is two-fold: (a) that you are running the 32-bit version of Cubase 5 and (b) that you are running a 64-bit operating system (Mac OS X 10.6, Mac OS X 10.7, Mac OS X 10.8, or one of the supported 64-bit versions of Windows) . . .

In other words, Cubase 5, Cubase 6, and Cubase 6.5 only do 32-bit ReWire, so if you are running Reason 6.5 in 64-bit mode, Cubase will not see the 64-bit version of Reason 6.5 as a ReWire candidate . . .

What happens when you run the Reason 6.5 installer is that it keys on the 64-bit operating system aspect and installs the 64-bit version of Reason 6.5, where on a Mac there is just one Reason.app and it can run in either 32-bit mode or 64-bit mode, depending on the version of Mac OS X as well as the "Open in 32-bit mode" option, where when the "Open in 32-bit mode" option is unchecked (see the following screen capture) Reason 6.5 runs in 64-bit mode, but when the "Open in 32-bit mode" option is checked, Reason 6.5 runs in 32-bit mode . . .

Image
Get Info for Reason 6.5 ~ Mac OS X 10.8.2 (Mountain Lion)

If you are running Windows, then the procedure is different, where you need to make a simple change to the Reason 6.5 Installer to tell it to install the 32-bit version; and once that is done, you need to run the installer, which then will install the 32-bit version of Reason 6.5, as explained in the following Propellerhead Software Support FAQ for Reason 6.5 . . .

[NOTE: The procedure for installing the 32-bit version of Reason 6.5 for Windows is explained when you click on the question in the right column, "Can I use both 64-bit and 32-bit versions of Reason 6/Essentials/Limited on my 64-bit Windows system?"; otherwise, refer to the similar question focused on Mac OS X, "Can I use both 64-bit and 32-bit versions of Reason 6/Essentials/Limited on my 64-bit Mac OS X system?", where for reference the Mac solution is vastly easier . . . ]

Code: Select all
Procedure for Windows Users

1. Create a shortcut of the "Install Reason.exe" file.

2. Right-click the shortcut and select "Properties".

3. In the "Target" field, add " /32" (without quotes, keep the leading space) at the very end.

4. Click OK.

5. Double click the shortcut to run the Reason installer in 32-bit mode.



[NOTE: In the third step (see above), observe that there is a single space before the slash, and the instruction is telling you that this "leading space" is important. What it does is cause the "/32" part to be a parameter to the installer executable, so instead of being "~.exe/32", it needs to be "~.exe /32" or whatever, where the extension might be ".msi" but probably is ".exe", which might be obvious but I had to read it two or three times, and I have been doing Windows software engineering since the first version of Windows, where my view is that more detailed information with explanations when doing documentation is better, which in the grand scheme of everything is one of the reasons that doing ReWire is so perplexing, because the typical documentation for doing ReWire is along the lines of "ReWIre rocks, and smart people like use it or something. Uhhhhhh, thank you, and please drive through" . . . :P ]

[SOURCE: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) about Reason (Propellerhead Software Technical Support) ]

Once you have the 32-bit version of Reason 6.5 installed, you will want to open NOTION 3, where you will toggle the "Enable ReWire" option in NOTION 3 "Preferences . . . " on the "Audio" tab, as explained in my previous post, since you want NOTION 3 to redo its ReWIre stuff after you have installed the 32-bit version of Reason 6.5 . . .

After you have toggled the NOTION 3 "Enable ReWire" option to force NOTION 3 to redo its ReWire scan and whatever, quit NOTION 3 . . .

Next start the 32-bit version of Reason 6.5 and open one of the demo songs to verify that Reason 6.5 is working correctly in 32-bit mode . . .

When that is done, quit Reason 6.5 and then start Cubase 5, at which time you should see the ReWire channels for Reason 6.5 . . .

CUBASE 5 ~ 32-Bit

I have not been able to determine whether (a) there only is a 32-bit version of Cubase 5 or (b) there are both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Cubase 5, but this is important, and it also depends on the version of Windows you are running . . .

Cubase 5, Cubase 6, and Cubase 6.5 only support 32-bit ReWire, so you need to be running the 32-bit version of Cubase, but I think that it is OK to run a 64-bit version of Windows, since like the 64-bit versions of Mac OS X, there is a 32-bit compatibility "sandbox" or whatever one wants to call it . . .

THOUGHTS

It will be helpful to know which version of Mac OS X or Windows you are running, as well as the general type of computer (primarily keying on the CPU/processor and available memory, but if you have a sound card, this also is helpful information to know) . . .

There are plenty of folks who participate in the Notion Music FORUM who run Windows, and there also are plenty of folks who run Mac OS X . . .

It has been a while since I did anything on a Windows machine, so the Windows specific information will be helpful primarily to other folks who are running Windows, and they might be able to provide some help, but if you are doing digital music production on the Mac, then I can provide detailed information on exactly what to do . . .

On the other hand, I know enough about Windows to read technical support stuff very rapidly, and in this regard it is important to know the specific version of Windows to make sense of the Cubase technical support knowledge base information at the Steinberg website . . .

Steinberg Knowledge Base

For reference, I do digital music production on the Mac, because (a) for me it is easier and (b) everything works, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :)
Last edited by Surfwhammy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby DennisAnderson » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:54 am

Hi,

I am in the same boat guys. I was having a similar problem getting Rewire to work.

It appears the problem is with the SYSWOW folder.

Here's what I did to fix it:

I did a search on REWIRE.DLL ->>> I opened the WINDOWS\SYSWOW64 folder and noticed there was no REWIRE.DLL file in there ->>> copied the REWIRE.DLL file into SYSWOW64 followed by opening Cubase 32 bit: Reason rewire was for the first time listed in the DEVICES menu. ->>> opened Reason in 32 bit mode and hey presto it was in Rewire mode.

Hope this helps you.

-Dennis
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby DanteUruzu » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:40 am

Alright, Reason ReWire shows up in Cubase after installing the 32-bit version of Reason :D. But Notion 3 still won't show up :(

My OS is Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit and Windows 8 Pro 64-bit (I'm trying it on both my laptop and desktop).
Desktop Specs
Model: HP P6216f
CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 215 Processor 2.75 GHz
RAM: 8.00 GB
Sound Card: The one that came with it... xD

Laptop Specs
Model: Acer Aspire 7739G
CPU: Intel Core i5 CPU M 480 @ 2.67 GHz
RAM: 4.00 GB
Sound Card: The one that came with it... xD
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby Surfwhammy » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:50 am

DennisAnderson wrote:Hi,

I am in the same boat guys. I was having a similar problem getting Rewire to work.

It appears the problem is with the SYSWOW folder.

Here's what I did to fix it:

I did a search on REWIRE.DLL ->>> I opened the WINDOWS\SYSWOW64 folder and noticed there was no REWIRE.DLL file in there ->>> copied the REWIRE.DLL file into SYSWOW64 followed by opening Cubase 32 bit: Reason rewire was for the first time listed in the DEVICES menu. ->>> opened Reason in 32 bit mode and hey presto it was in Rewire mode.

Hope this helps you.

-Dennis


Excellent! :)

What version of Windows are you running?

Can you provide a bit more information on the "REWIRE.DLL" file you used?

The reasons I ask are (a) that knowing the version of Windows might be helpful for other folks and (b) knowing more detailed information about the "REWIRE.DLL" might be sufficient to determine whether it is the ReWire 1.7 file or the ReWire 2 file, which can be important, because there are two different sets of ReWire infrastructure: (1) ReWire 1.7, which is 32-bit only, and (2) ReWire 2 which is dual-mode (32-bit or 64-bit) . . .

I like the name of the subfolder ("SYSWOW64"), which is a new one for me, and I am a bit tickled at the moment because it sounds like "ShamWow!", the super-absorbent towels that pitchman extraordinaire Vince Offer promotes on television . . .

Lots of FUN!
:)
Last edited by Surfwhammy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Notion 3 ReWire

Postby Surfwhammy » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:31 am

DanteUruzu wrote:Alright, Reason ReWire shows up in Cubase after installing the 32-bit version of Reason :D. But Notion 3 still won't show up :(

My OS is Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit and Windows 8 Pro 64-bit (I'm trying it on both my laptop and desktop).
Desktop Specs
Model: HP P6216f
CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 215 Processor 2.75 GHz
RAM: 8.00 GB
Sound Card: The one that came with it... xD

Laptop Specs
Model: Acer Aspire 7739G
CPU: Intel Core i5 CPU M 480 @ 2.67 GHz
RAM: 4.00 GB
Sound Card: The one that came with it... xD


Making progress! :)

Your Windows machines look fine to me, and they are peppy dual-core processors, which is great, and for 32-bit mode they have enough memory . . .

[NOTE: Since the Acer Aspire 7739G notebook has an Intel i5 dual-core processor, it should have the same or similar onboard audio as the Mac Pro here in the sound isolation studio, which works very nicely . . . ]

At this point, there are two tests that will be helpful:

(1) NOTION 3 as ReWire host controller and Reason 6.5 as ReWire slave

(1.1) Close all apps and reboot the computer . . .

[NOTE: When you are making sense of ReWire and doing experiments, it tends to be a good idea to reboot more frequently, and this also is the case on the Mac, where at time I did a cold reboot (complete power down and reboot) every 15 minutes or so, which included doing a cold reboot of the MOTU 828mkII external digital audio interface. And this is important, because as I explained somewhere, when everything is not configured correctly, this can result in what one might call "ghost" or "phantom" processes, DLLs, threads, UNIX daemons, or whatever, and the only way to clear the lingering stuff is to do a cold reboot . . . ]

(1.2) Start NOTION 3 and toggle the "Enable ReWire" option . . .

(1.3) With only NOTION 3 running, switch to the NOTION 3 Mixer and then click on the tiny "+" sign on the right of the "ReWire" button at the top of the NOTION 3 Mixer in what I suppose is the "banner" section or whatever, which will look similar to the following screen capture from the Mac version, where the "ReWire" button and its "+" sign are at the far-right of this image . . .

Image

(1.4) When you click on the "+" sign and hold the mouse, you should see Reason 6.5 listed with a fly-out triangle, which is what you will use to get the full list of Reason channels, where you will select "Channels 1-2", which will be the Master stereo output of Reason 6.5 . . .

This creates an Auxiliary ReWire Channel in the NOTION 3 Mixer, and it will receive the audio generated by Reason 6.5 . . .

(1.5) In your NOTION 3 score, add a Piano and then add a bunch of empty measures, which should be enough to map to a minute or two, and Save the NOTION 3 project . . .

(1.6) Now you can start the 32-bit version of Reason 6.5 and open one of the DEMO songs . . .

(1.7) Switch to NOTION 3 and press the "Play" button, and you should see both the NOTION 3 and Reason 6.5 transports moving, and you should hear the Reason 6.5 DEMO song, where if you look at the NOTION 3 Mixer, the Auxiliary ReWire Channel should have LED or level activity . . .

(1.8) You might pause the song for a moment and add some Piano notes on the Piano staff in NOTION 3, where if you rewind the NOTION 3 transport and press Play, you will have the Piano notes and the audio from the Reason 6.5 song . . .

(1.9) Save the NOTION 3 project; quit Reason 6.5; and then quit NOTION 3 . . .

EXPECTED RESULT: You will be able to create the Auxiliary ReWire Channel in the NOTION 3 Mixer, and you will hear Reason 6.5 audio for the DEMO song you selected. And you can add Piano notes to the NOTION 3 score, and they will be played and heard, as well . . .

(2) Cubase 5 as ReWire host controller and NOTION 3 as ReWire slave

If the first test is successful, then I think you can do the second test, and it also will work, but if not, then it is important to ensure that you specify the output of at least one channel in the NOTION 3 Mixer as a ReWire channel pair, which for NOTION 3 acting as ReWire slave is done in the drop-down list at the bottom of the NOTION 3 Mixer for each track, where you can begin by setting the Output for the NOTION 3 Master stereo track to "Channels 1-2", which is the ReWire channel pair you will use to represent NOTION 3 in Cubase 5 . . .

The following image shows a NOTION 3 Master stereo track with its output set to "Channels 1-2" as it appears on the Mac, which will be similar to the way it looks in Windows . . .

Image
NOTION 3 Master Stereo Track ~ Output Set to ReWire Channels 1-2 ("Ch 1-2")

You can refer to the Propellerhead Software instructions for doing ReWire with Cubase 4, and these instructions might provide a few clues . . .

THOUGHTS

Getting everything configured correctly takes a while the first time, and for reference it took me approximately three weeks to make sense of ReWire on the Mac, during which time I was not a happy camper, which is an understatement, but I kept doing experiments and reading about ReWIre, and eventually it made sense, where the key is that there is a bunch of stuff that needs to be configured very precisely, and there certainly is more to getting everything correctly configured than one might infer from the typically sparse user documentation on how to do ReWire . . .

[NOTE: Once you get ReWire working nicely, you will be able to tell someone with the same computers, version s of WIndows, and the same digital music production applications how to do ReWire in perhaps 5 or so minutes, but discovering how to do it is not so easy, where if some of the difficulty is a matter of ReWIre being a new technology, so while you are doing tests and trying different configurations, parameters, and settings, you also are learning what ReWire is and how it works, and while the ReWire documentation at the Propellerhead Software Support website is more detailed, it is not so current with respect to versions of various Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) applications, where as an example its instructions for Cubase cover version 4, but the current version of Cubase at present actually is 6.5, which is the reason that I generally consider the overall user documentation on ReWire to be on par with the "Beavis and Butt-head" version: "ReWIre rocks, and smart people like use it or something. Uhhhhhh, thank you, and please drive through" . . . :P ]

The test with Cubase 5 and Reason 6.5, where everything is 32-bits, is important because it verifies that Cubase 5 does ReWire on playback with Reason 6.5, which verifies the ReWire infrastructure and so forth for Cubase 5 and Reason 6.5 in 32-bit mode . . .

The first test with NOTION 3 (see above) covers the case where NOTION 3 is the ReWire host controller, and Reason 6.5 is the ReWire slave, which also needs to work, since it is an important step . . .

The second test with NOTION 3, where Cubase 5 is the ReWire host controller and NOTION 3 is the ReWire slave is the key test, and it needs to work, as well . . .

The way I recommend doing it is incremental and stepwise, where you begin by getting it to work with Reason 6.5 and then move forward, which is a logical way to do it and will reveal any configuration problems along the way . . .

You are making progress, which is very important, so keep at it, and report the results of the first test (see ablve) where NOTION 3 is the ReWire host controller and Reason 6.5 is the ReWire slave, all of it being 32-bit mode, of course . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

P. S. And you might consider doing the experiment regarding copying "REWIRE.DLL" to the "SYSWOW64" folder as DennisAnderson explained his recent post, but be certain to have a way to undo it, and only do it if there is no "REWIRE.DLL" file already in the "SYSWOW64" folder . . .
Last edited by Surfwhammy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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