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First reaction to download of Notion3

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First reaction to download of Notion3

Postby TocoCantar » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:51 am

1) Being asked to register confused me. It would have been easier if the [cancel] button said [Demo] instead. I didn't realise that cancel would let me use the software.

2) It's pretty

3) Like all other software it is not intuitive. I needed to look in the manual for almost every action

4) I put in a note and heard audio which was nice (By comparison it took me 3 hours to get to this stage with Reaper). The volume was very low. This is the first time I have had to turn up 'Wave' volume on the PC.

5) The downloaded Flute and Horn have been copied to SOUNDS and BUNDLED but are not recognised by Notion.

6) Don't seem to be able to drag notes horizontally (Keyed in F,A,C want to move so its A,F,C - can't do it?)

7) Imported a midi file (produced in Logic HitKit) it was piano music which had been on a piano staff. Notion put it all on a treble staff in 4 voices. I could not sort it out.

8) Is there a way to select all of one voice? I wanted to cut and past each voice to its own staff.

9) Lovely pastel colors for those 4 voices, but like 10% of men I can barely tell them apart. No chance of editing like that. I want to select voice 1, cut and paste or at least view it with others hidden.

10) Don't much like the difficulty of swapping between notation and 'piano roll'. I use notation, but I also use piano roll - its chromatic and makes intervals instantly obvious - major or minor chord? Don't need to know the clef or the key to tell them apart. Want to subtly alter notes? Can do on piano roll. I have used two programs Deluxe Music Construction Set (on the pre PC Amiga) and Logic Hitkit on the PC both of which can swap back and forth notation-piano roll.

11) Don't understand why import goes to a new screen. I wanted to import the midi file to a specific staff in an existing open score which I had set-up for this.

12) Don't know why you treat 'sequencer' staffs as something different. Should just click a button to convert back and forth.

I have yet to try the audio side, would like to have the other instruments working.

After the first 10 mins of config, I was very comfortably worrying about harmonies and not about software. After a few hours of pleasure I did start wondering if the software can cope with what I want to do. I hope that it can because it is a pleasure to compose using it.
Last edited by TocoCantar on Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First reaction to download of Noyion3

Postby tubatimberinger » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:28 pm

I think one of the biggest hurtles N3 has is it being compared to other programs which have preceded it. I would say to forget all your previous experience with other programs. Notion is NOT really like them. It is not a notation program really although they say you can produce professional notation. I have not found this to be the case for the most part. To clarify; when compared to Finale and Sibelius, today's two industry standards for music notation ,the final printed product can be lacking for use with real musicians. Although it is much, much better than earlier versions; I would still give it a C+ at best in its present form, and only in the case of typical, common practice type music. In other words, Beethovenish, Mozartish, maybe Stravinskyish music could work, but definitely NOT Carter nor Cage. For film work, I would say it can be an incredible tool.

It is not a traditional midi/audio multi-track recording environment either as the interface you work within is primarily music notation. Although you can indeed import MIDI files, the import is no better or worse than any other program I have found. However, it imports Music XML (a generic notation format of course) wonderfully. Also, the stock library it comes with is quite extensive (especially for the price) and if you know how real musicians really play, you can get amazing sounds out of it without resorting to 3rd party libraries. That being said, you will notice that the stock library is 90% orchestral instruments and as such, I think it is safe to say that this type of music is what Notion was originally intended to create.

I would also ask, what kind of music do you want to create with it. From my observation, Notion is very specialized compared to the numerous hi quality DAW applications out there. Don't get me wrong. I love Notion and I use it every day pretty much without fail. But that is because it fills the niche I required where many of the other products out there do not. I would also say I am one of the programs biggest critics because I use it everyday and I see the dizzying potential it has versus its limitations.

I urge you to just take a little time and skim the manual (it isn't really that much reading). It really is a great program.

-tim
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Re: First reaction to download of Noyion3

Postby TocoCantar » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:34 am

I have read the manual and I keep it open while using Notion.

I want to love this software, because it looks nice and it sounds nice, and I have written in the first two days 3 very short violin section pieces (only sound I have).

I have some experience - 20 years ago I spent 2 years studying and writing orchestral music using a commodore Amiga connected by midi to a rack mounted Roland synth with orchestral sound card. The software was called Deluxe Music Construction set. It had staves and piano roll and midi event edits. The major limitation was the synth sounds and the lack of very fine control over how it was played (plus my lack of talent)

Recently I decided to return to this activity and have used as a stop gap Logic HitKit on a PC using MS wavetable sounds. Logic has notation, piano roll plus audio recording and editing. It lacks sampled sound and looks a bit crude in low definition graphics.

I love the look of notion, BUT I couldn't...

Drag up or down group of notes with mouse (need to use keyboard)
Can't drag notes horizontally !
Can't paste notes anywhere except first beat of bar!
Can't paste a motif or melody, after an existing note in a bar - had to post to next bar then delete bar line.
Can't insert motif or melody inbetween bars - it overwrites the subsequent bars
Can't repeat paste (ctrlV, ctrlV to get two things pasted in a row)

While I only have the violin section (can't get the other two I downloaded to be recognised) I would like to default to MS wavetable (I know this isn't much use)

Import midi is obviously not a practical method - I am guessing that this is a universal problem..
Imported midi file of piano music - it was squeezed into a treble clef even though Notion said 'Don't have piano sound'
That import is in 4 voices when the original was in 2.
Can't highlight all of a voice to cut and past into own stave.
Can't hide the other 3 voices to be to even see the voice.
Import midi doesn't go into my chosen stave - goes into new score
Import midi defaults to 'sequencer stave' why?

Lyrics - very nice except that it tended to open the box in the wrong place and only after RETURN jump to the right place - BUT it won't let me enter the lyrics prior to writing the music (No notes for it to stick to - surely it could stick to the empty beat spaces?)

Sequencer stave- Someone is having a joke here no? All the useful parts of piano roll have been left out.
Can't write new notes into this stave!
If change to notation can't change back!
Can't use the menu to transpose.
I love the way the music looks on manuscript paper. I start there and do much of the work there, but piano roll is a powerful adjunct which makes some things easier than notation. Having just one is like piano with just one hand, its a one legged drummer.

Reasons why everyone should also have piano roll:
Piano roll is chromatic - instantly see that 3rds are major or minor no matter what clef or key.
Subtly change performance by extending or reducing individual notes in a chord - changes that would be horrible in notation.
Imagine you have a triad that sustains a bar and then you think...change that to start as an open fifth then on beat 3 add in the third. Editing in notation requires a lot of clicks, change of notes, copy and paste-if notion allowed that, and then deletion, on piano roll one click and drag.

Odd that to input a midi file you go to a different menu (FILE) as when you input audio (TOOLS)
Inputs the audio well but doesn't show where it ends on the stave. (A little shading would be nice)
(Unfortunate that I will have to downgrade any wav files to 16 bit in order to do this)

MIXER
Is it normal to be able to 'SOLO' more than one instrument at a time?
Why do I have to open the mixer to listen to one part? And when there why isn't there a play and stop button?
(I like the stereo width pan system)

I am still searching the software that is available. Few suppliers explain what their software actually does. I usually prefer to read the manual prior to or instead of download because that tells me what it can do. Many suppliers don't make the manual available. Some don't allow demos. The industry seems to be split between products each of which leaves out 1 of the essential parts.

All very confusing.
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Re: First reaction to download of Notion3

Postby Brian » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:55 am

Hello,

I'm sorry to hear that you are confused about NOTION3. Due to the amount of features that you are having a problem with, it might be easiest for both of us if we were to discuss these over the phone. Please feel free to give me a call at 866-398-2994. Just choose the option for Tech Support to get through to me. If you are calling from outside the U.S., please feel free to send me an email at brian@notionmusic.com with your phone number and a good time to give you a call and I would be happy to do so. Thank you for your interest in NOTION3.

Best Regards,
Brian
NOTION Music Tech Support
866-398-2994
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Re: First reaction to download of Notion3

Postby Brian » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:02 am

Hello,



Here are the answers to your questions:




I have cut and pasted the topic from the forum and edited it down a bit. Thank you for offering to chat on the phone. I live in Spain, but am currently in England. Are the things that I couldn't do things that cannot be done or am I just missing the method?

If I buy how do I get the other sounds? (Disk? Not sure I can read double layer)



If you choose to purchase NOTION3, it will come on a dual-layer DVD with all of the sounds that are on the demo page.






I want to love this software, because it looks nice and it sounds nice, and I have written in the first two days 3 very short violin section pieces (only sound I have). And I have now imported a vocal recorded and edited in other software - and then wrote music to it in Notion. I note that using rests it is possible to move the audio to match the notes, but it that's an odd way to do.

I couldn't (are these actions possible?)...

Drag up or down group of notes with mouse (need to use keyboard) This has to be done with the keyboard. You can click and drag an individual note with the mouse.
Can't drag notes horizontally ! This cannot be done.
Can't paste notes anywhere except first beat of a bar! NOTION will allow you to paste notes anywhere in a measure. Please click at the end of a measure and pay attention to where the orange status bar is.
Can't paste a motif or melody, after an existing note in a bar - had to post to next bar then delete bar line. Please see previous answer.
Can't insert motif or melody inbetween bars - it overwrites the subsequent bars This happens if you are using Paste Insert rather than just paste
Can't repeat paste (ctrlV, ctrlV to get two things pasted in a row) This works for me. I'm not sure why you cannot do this.

The downed sounds don't appear on score instrument list I only have the violin section (Copied into SOUNDS and BUNDLED) - download page doesn't explain. explained in other email.


Import midi is obviously not a practical method - I am guessing that this is a universal problem..

Imported midi file of piano music - it was squeezed into a treble clef even though Notion said 'Don't have piano sound' This is a problem with the file that you are importing. To correct the issue, you will have to convert the piano staff to a grand staff in the Staff Settings window while it is still in sequencer-staff view. To do this, please go to Score>Setup and then click on the gearwheel next to the instrument. Next, choose "Notation/Tab" and change the staff to a grand staff. Now, when you convert to notation, the notes will be on the correct staff. To correct this issue, make sure you have the correct Standard MIDI instrument selected in the program that created the MIDI file before exporting it.
That import is in 4 voices when the original was in 2. Tuplets come in as multiple voices.
Can't highlight all of a voice to cut and past into own stave. We do not currently have this option.
Can't hide the other 3 voices to be to even see the voice. You can hide instruments but not voices.
Import midi doesn't go into my chosen stave - goes into new score Importing a MIDI file does create a new score from which you can copy/paste
Import midi defaults to 'sequencer stave' why? So you can view/edit velocities or note durations before converting to notation.
Lyrics - very nice except that it tended to open the box in the wrong place and only after RETURN jump to the right place - BUT it won't let me enter the lyrics prior to writing the music (No notes for it to stick to - surely it could stick to the empty beat spaces? - I can see a work-round by setting up a template with notes.) This is being looked at right now.

Sequencer stave- Someone is having a joke here no? All the useful parts of piano roll have been left out. I assure you that this is not a joke. This is so that you can edit note durations and velocities. This feature can be very handy when dealing with live performances.
Can't write new notes into this stave! You should be able to.
If change to notation can't change back! You can enter the sequencer-staff overlay function with the tab key.
Can't use the menu to transpose. Not sure why.

I love the way the music looks on manuscript paper. I start there and do much of the work there, but piano roll is a powerful adjunct which makes some things easier than notation. Having just one is a one legged drummer.


Reasons why everyone should also have piano roll:
Piano roll is chromatic - instantly see that 3rds are major or minor no matter what clef or key.
Subtly change performance by extending or reducing individual notes in a chord - changes that would be horrible in notation.
Imagine you have a triad that sustains a bar and then you think...change that to start as an open fifth then on beat 3 add in the third. Editing in notation requires a lot of clicks, change of notes, copy and paste-if notion allowed that, and then deletion, on piano roll one click and drag.

Odd that to input a midi file you go to a different menu (FILE) as when you input audio (TOOLS)
Inputs the audio well but doesn't show where it ends on the stave. (A little shading would be nice)
(Unfortunate that I will have to downgrade any wav files to 16 bit in order to do this)

MIXER
Why do I have to open the mixer to listen to one part? And when there why isn't there a play and stop button? There is a play and a stop button on the transport bar. You do not need to go into the mixer to play one instrument. Simply click and drag to highlight it and then press the space bar.



(I like the stereo width pan system)


Thanks again for the email and please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.



Best Regards,









Brian Meisner
Technical Support
Brian
NOTION Music Tech Support
866-398-2994
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Re: First reaction to download of Notion3

Postby achambily » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:04 pm

Like all other software it is not intuitive.

not quite true...
for me it's the most intuitive one I know...
as a composer, I'm very comfortable with it...
(but I use EWQL for a good sounding)

(By comparison it took me 3 hours to get to this stage with Reaper).

hmmm...
not really the same kind of software !...
I'm also a Reaper user and I love it :)
(but not for the same things)
In fact I compose in Notion then I mix in Reaper.
Notion, Cubase 7, EWQLSO Gold, VSL SE
Win7 x64, I7 Dell studio laptop, 8GB RAM
M-Audio FTP
M-Audio KeyStudio 25
Clavinova CLP 811
Sennheiser e840
Sennheiser HD280 Pro
Yamaha HS50M

http://chambily.com/
http://soundcloud.com/axel-casadesus/sets
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Re: First reaction to download of Notion3

Postby tubatimberinger » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:17 pm

if there was a like button, i would 'like' achambily's comments (ahem, ahem; make a like button?)
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