Clouds

[JohnF]

Clouds
https://soundcloud.com/john-freese/clouds

Clouds on clouds, in volumes driven,
Curtain round the vault of heaven.
-Thomas Love Peacock

Written in N4.
John

[Surfwhammy]

Clouds
https://soundcloud.com/john-freese/clouds

Clouds on clouds, in volumes driven,
Curtain round the vault of heaven.
-Thomas Love Peacock

Written in N4.
John

I like this composition!

It conveys a story, which in many respects is the hallmark of a good composition, and the characters in this story are clouds . . .

I also like the instrumentation but with one exception, which specifically is the instrument that has what appears to be a prominent white noise component . . .

White Noise (Wikipedia)

This is most obvious at 1:10 in the SoundCloud audio, but it also is heard at a lower volume in the background at the start of the piece . . .

It is not a problem with the composition--instead, it is a problem with the NOTION 4 sound samples for the instrument, which I think is bowed violins in a particular articulation or playing style . . .

Everything else is fine, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!

P. S. I had a few general observations about strings and noise, so I created a new topic and moved my observations there:

Strings and Noise (Notion Music FORUM)

[idiotSavant]

I also like the instrumentation but with one exception, which specifically is the instrument that has what appears to be a prominent white noise component . . .

Surfwhammy, I think what you're hearing is the sample's rendition of the sound of the bow scraping the strings. I've noticed that this can be grating on many violin patches from various sound libraries (VSL included) and also noticed it in John's Clouds piece.

I usually apply a focused parametric EQ to eliminate this effect, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. I think this adds to what many refer to as a "chilly" sound from the strings, especially the violins.

[saintdufus]

When I saw the title of this composition, I assumed the dominant instrument type would be woodwinds (since clouds and wind are closely related, and woodwinds give an "airy" feeling).

To my surprise, the woodwinds don't seem to come in until the last section of the piece; but the composition itself is quite beautiful, and demonstrates considerable skill with string orchestration.

[Surfwhammy]

I usually apply a focused parametric EQ to eliminate this effect, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. I think this adds to what many refer to as a "chilly" sound from the strings, especially the violins.

This is intriguing, and toward the goal of exploring this and other related phenomena, I created a new topic, which is fabulous . . .

Psychoacoustics and Digital Music Production (Notion Music FORUM)

Fabulous!

[JohnF]

Surf - I think you're right, it's the upper register of the cello's that's creating that sound. I did compare with my exported .wma and it is more prevalent on soundcloud, due to compression I suppose. BTW, these are not notion samples, they are Hollywood Strings. Thanks for the detailed write-up!

idiotsavant - I'll have to try that out. Do you eq all the time?

saintdufus - Thank you.

[idiotSavant]

idiotsavant - I'll have to try that out. Do you eq all the time?

John, when I first started using VSL I struggled with the "cold" sound of the string samples. I started playing with EQ about a year ago to warm up the sound. Then recently someone here posted something that was quite a revelation for me. They said that many sample libraries (and this might include yours) are what I will call "frequency-inclusive". In other words, the samples are recorded, usually in a sound isolation chamber, to capture the full range of an instrument. But listeners in "real" environments never hear the instrument this way - they hear it with frequencies attenuated by the music stand, by the player in front of the player, by the players in front of those players, by the diffusion created by the materials in the hall or room, by the audience in front of the listener, etc. etc. You get the picture.

Since you can't add frequencies that don't exist in a sample, the intent with a "frequency-inclusive" sample is that virtual instrument recordists (us) can use EQ in a subtractive way to start to filter frequencies. The frequencies that I end up filtering are the highs in very particular ranges with tight Q values (what I call "surgical EQ") to remove some of the harshness that I find associated with the samples I'm using. The "scrape" of the high range in a cello is a perfect example. I used to try to add low end to warm things up but found that everything was becoming a muddy mess.

I also will often boost the +/- 250 hz range in strings which equates to the "wood" of the instrument. This makes the sound more realistic to my ears since it brings out the sound of the hollow wood body, which is where warmth comes from for strings. I also sometimes boost the highs at about 1.5-3.0 kHz (depending on the instrument) to bring out the sound of the bow moving across the string if that's the effect I want.

Very long answer to your short question, but I hope you find it helpful. Almost any DAW has built in EQ, and there are a lot of free and inexpensive EQ plug-ins out there. I'm searching now for the best EQ tools. I just tested a very nice VST EQ from Hofa. Free evaluation download, check it out.

http://hofa-plugins.de/pages/start_en/hofa-iq-eq_en.php

[idiotSavant]

I also will often boost the +/- 250 hz range in strings which equates to the "wood" of the instrument. This makes the sound more realistic to my ears since it brings out the sound of the hollow wood body, which is where warmth comes from for strings. I also sometimes boost the highs at about 1.5-3.0 kHz (depending on the instrument) to bring out the sound of the bow moving across the string if that's the effect I want.

So last night I was walking through the train station to catch my afternoon ride home and there was an old Chinese guy playing a Chinese cello. This man's instrument was a crude version, basically a stick with strings stretched over it and a small drum-like chamber at the bottom for resonance.

I stopped to listen to the sound and realized that this was a great illustration of the psychoacoustic effects that Surf talks about. The instrument is naturally very high pitched and harsh, with very little "warmth" that I associate with the western cello. The reason being that there is no large wood resonance chamber in the Chinese cello like there is in the western version. This effect was enhanced in the acoustically harsh environment of the train station, where there were hard surfaces everywhere, and no diffusive or absorptive surfaces to soak up the high frequencies. So the effect was very harsh, high-pitched and not (to my western ears) pleasant at all. The old man obviously enjoyed it, but I kept thinking "This needs an EQ with a serious boost at about the 200 hz range!"

[Surfwhammy]

So last night I was walking through the train station to catch my afternoon ride home and there was an old Chinese guy playing a Chinese cello. This man's instrument was a crude version, basically a stick with strings stretched over it and a small drum-like chamber at the bottom for resonance.

I stopped to listen to the sound and realized that this was a great illustration of the psychoacoustic effects that Surf talks about.

Your qi is strong . . .

"Instant Cellophane" (The Surf Whammys) ~ MP3

Fabulous!

[JohnF]

Interesting.... Thanks man. I'll give that some thought when I encounter this again.

idiotsavant - I'll have to try that out. Do you eq all the time?

John, when I first started using VSL I struggled with the "cold" sound of the string samples. I started playing with EQ about a year ago to warm up the sound. Then recently someone here posted something that was quite a revelation for me. They said that many sample libraries (and this might include yours) are what I will call "frequency-inclusive". In other words, the samples are recorded, usually in a sound isolation chamber, to capture the full range of an instrument. But listeners in "real" environments never hear the instrument this way - they hear it with frequencies attenuated by the music stand, by the player in front of the player, by the players in front of those players, by the diffusion created by the materials in the hall or room, by the audience in front of the listener, etc. etc. You get the picture.

Since you can't add frequencies that don't exist in a sample, the intent with a "frequency-inclusive" sample is that virtual instrument recordists (us) can use EQ in a subtractive way to start to filter frequencies. The frequencies that I end up filtering are the highs in very particular ranges with tight Q values (what I call "surgical EQ") to remove some of the harshness that I find associated with the samples I'm using. The "scrape" of the high range in a cello is a perfect example. I used to try to add low end to warm things up but found that everything was becoming a muddy mess.

I also will often boost the +/- 250 hz range in strings which equates to the "wood" of the instrument. This makes the sound more realistic to my ears since it brings out the sound of the hollow wood body, which is where warmth comes from for strings. I also sometimes boost the highs at about 1.5-3.0 kHz (depending on the instrument) to bring out the sound of the bow moving across the string if that's the effect I want.

Very long answer to your short question, but I hope you find it helpful. Almost any DAW has built in EQ, and there are a lot of free and inexpensive EQ plug-ins out there. I'm searching now for the best EQ tools. I just tested a very nice VST EQ from Hofa. Free evaluation download, check it out.

http://hofa-plugins.de/pages/start_en/hofa-iq-eq_en.php