Rewire Notion to S1 and vice versa

[billshideler]

Is it possible to record midi into Studio One and have that output sent to Notion in rewire mode?

If it is possible, how do I go about doing it?

Any and all help is GREATLY appreciated!

TIA

TW

[Surfwhammy]

Is it possible to record midi into Studio One and have that output sent to Notion in rewire mode?

If it is possible, how do I go about doing it?

Any and all help is GREATLY appreciated!

TIA

TW

QUESTION: Are you doing digital music production on the Mac or on a Windows computer?

LOGIC: The reason I ask is that I do everything on the Mac, so I can determine how to do this and verify that it works on the Mac. However, being able to do it on the Mac does not necessarily imply that it works on a Windows computer . . .

THOUGHTS

With the caveat that I have not done the required experiments specifically with Studio One 2.6 Producer (PreSonus), I think this is possible, although I would do it a different way, since I know that another way works with Live 9 (Ableton) . . .

Recording MIDI in NOTION 4 ~ Live 9 as ReWire 2 Master -- YouTube video

I will do a few experiments and post the results in a while . . .

Studio One 2.6 Producer and Professional work as ReWire 2 host controllers but not as ReWire 2 slaves, and the primary rule for a ReWire 2 session is that the host controller is responsible for the audio, and the ReWire 2 slave(s) send the audio they generate to the host controller via ReWire 2 channels . . .

In other words, if you want to hear the audio in a ReWire 2 session, then it needs to be sent from the slave(s) to the host controller, but when the ReWire 2 session ends by closing first the slave(s) and then closing the host controller, subsequently when you run one of the applications by itself, the application once again is responsible for its audio, which in turn requires changing the output for tracks from (a) ReWire 2 channels to (b) regular output . . .

Lots of FUN!

[Surfwhammy]

Is it possible to record midi into Studio One and have that output sent to Notion in rewire mode?

The key to determining whether this is possible is strongly dependent on the way one uses the word "output", where there are two possibilities:

(1) audio output

(2) MIDI messages

Since Studio One only works as a ReWire 2 host controller, the answer to the question using the first definition of "output" is "No", because in a ReWire 2 session where NOTION 4 is the ReWire 2 slave, it must send all its audio to the ReWire 2 host controller, and as such it makes no sense for the ReWire 2 host controller to send any of its audio output to the ReWire 2 slave . . .

Using the second definition, NOTION 4 can output to four MIDI ports, where each port has 16 channels, but it only receives MIDI input from one device, which can be the same MIDI device that is providing input to Studio One, but the problem is that while NOTION 4 can use the MIDI input to play a VSTi virtual instrument and send the audio output to Studio One where it can be recorded, nothing is recorded in NOTION 4. In other words all the recording in this scenario is done in Studio One . . .

The following YouTube video shows Studio One 2.6 Producer as the ReWire 2 host controller and NOTION 4 as the ReWire 2 slave, where the MIDI input device is a KORG Triton Music Workstation (88 Keys), which is the MIDI Input device for both Studio One and NOTION 4, hence it is playing VSTi virtual instruments in both Studio One and NOTION 4, where in Studio One it is playing an XLN Audio Addictive Keys Studio Grand Piano and a FabFilter Software Instruments Twin 2 Synthesizer, while in NOTION 4 it is playing a second Twin 2 Synthesizer . . .

[NOTE: The newly composed and performed "Italian Telstar" song will be on the upcoming Italian version of the Surf Whammys fabulous "Electric Underpants" album . . . ]

Studio One N4 ~ MIDI ~ AK FF: "Italian Telstar" (The Surf Whammys) -- YouTube video

In some respects, this is the scenario you described, except that nothing is recorded in NOTION 4, but this is not a problem, because the NOTION 4 generated audio is recorded in Studio One, since NOTION 4 sends its generated audio to Studio One via a ReWire 2 channel pair . . .

THOUGHTS

There might be another way to do this which will make it possible to record something in NOTION 4, but perhaps not . . .

It is interesting to discover new ways to do things that in some respects have no practical application, but the rule I use is that the Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application is where you want everything recorded . . .

I nearly always start with a basic rhythm section done in NOTION 4, and when the basic rhythm section is finished, I record it as soundbites in the DAW application via a ReWire 2 session where the DAW application is the ReWire 2 host controller and NOTION 4 is the ReWIre 2 slave . . .

Doing it this way makes it very easy to switch back-and-forth from working with real instruments and vocals in the DAW application to working with virtual instruments in NOTION 4, because all the real instruments and vocals are performed and recorded to the NOTION 4 basic rhythm section, hence are synchronized, where as a general rule it is easier to synchronize real instruments and voices to virtual instruments played via music notation than it is to start with only real instruments and singing and then to try to synchronize music notation and virtual instruments to the real instruments and singing, primarily because musicians and singers tend to be a bit less precise in tempo than virtual instruments played by music notation . . .

I also use Reason 7 and various Rack Extensions as virtual instruments, as well as a "helper" DAW application for instruments and vocals that I want to enhance with Reason 7 and various Rack Extensions effects, but overall I use Reason 7 as if it were an advanced virtual instrument, which it is, but when I am using Reason 7 and various Rack Extensions, the generated audio eventually is recorded in the primary DAW application as soundbites, since I do the producing and mixing in the primary DAW application . . .

And since I do everything myself, I do it in layers, one layer at a time as part of a complete and total system which is defined very precisely in terms of guidelines, procedures, rules, and techniques for doing everything, which is the only way to do everything in a logic and orderly series of repeatable steps, where one criteria for a "complete system" is that it needs to be repeatable, since otherwise every time you create a new song, it is done with a completely and totally different system or formula, which from my perspective is not the optimal way to do things . . .

Explained another way using an analogy, metaphor, or simile, you are in the hamburger business, except that songs are your hamburgers, and at least on a "per album" basis, you want your hamburgers to be consistent, hence the goal here in the sound isolation studio is to develop a "sound" based on a very precise system or formula . . .

Composing music and lyrics is very easy for me to do, but the difficult part is getting everything properly recorded and produced, so instead of focusing on what I do easily, at present I am focusing on making sense of the producing, recording, mixing, and mastering aspects of the system, which is coming along nicely, and with a few exceptions (primarily my singing) are in the "controlled" zone . . .

The primary difficulty with my singing is that I only realized about a year ago in an immediately conscious way that I am a baritone, not a soprano . . .

[NOTE: I get "stuck" on some really stupid things, and one might expect that I would have recognized I was not a soprano, but (a) nobody told me and I did not think to ask and (b) the last time I asked was over half a century ago and at the time the choirmaster of the liturgical boys choir told me that I was a soprano, which is the way it works with some things. And the only reason I now know that I am baritone is that as part of making sense of producing, I became Pretend George Martin, and in my new role as Pretend George Martin (a.k.a., choirmaster) I recognized the problem and told myself that I was not a soprano, which was a big surprise to me . . . ]

Some instrumental parts need to be created in NOTION 4 or Reason 7 to use virtual instruments and sequencers, and there are scenarios where it makes sense to record real instruments and vocals in Reason 7, primarily to use the Reason 7 effects and Rack Extensions, but ultimately all that stuff is recorded in the DAW application where everything is produced and mixed . . .

You can record MIDI keyboards in NOTION 4 and Reason 7, and the logic for recording MIDI in NOTION 4 primarily is to convert it to music notation, which makes it an input strategy more than an actual performing and recording strategy . . .

For reference, when I recorded MIDI input in NOTION 4 from the Triton in a ReWire 2 session where Ableton Live 9 was the ReWire 2 host controller and NOTION 4 was the ReWire 2 slave, I think this worked because there was no MIDI input to Ableton Live 9, which is a different scenario from having primary MIDI input to both Studio One and NOTION 4 in a ReWire 2 session where Studio One is the ReWire host controller and NOTION 4 is the ReWire 2 slave . . .

Another key bit of information is that I have used Studio One 2.6 Producer for just a few days, so for all practical purposes I am learning how to use it, and there are two ways to configure a device like the Triton for MIDI, where the Studio One User Guide recommends doing both configurations, where one has the Triton only as a MIDI keyboard but the other has the Triton as an external synthesizer . . .

~ ~ ~ Continued in the next post ~ ~ ~

[Surfwhammy]

~ ~ ~ Continued from the previous post ~ ~ ~

THOUGHTS

I will do a few more experiments, but in the interim it will be helpful to understand what you need to do in a more general high-level way . . .

In other words, instead of asking the question in the context of ReWire 2, ask it in a more general way . . .

(1) Studio One 2.6 Producer will record MIDI . . .

(2) NOTION 4 will record MIDI, and NOTION 4 will convert the MIDI to music notation . . .

(3) Studio One 2.6 Producer has access to your AU and VSTi virtual instruments if you are on the Mac . . .

(4) NOTION 4 has access to your VSTi virtual instruments but not AU virtual instruments . . .

(5) Studio One 2.6 Producer can record real instruments and real vocals . . .

(6) NOTION 4 cannot record real instruments and real vocals . . .

Think of it in terms of creating a song in layers, and ask the question in the context of (a) I have these layers, but (b) I need to add more layers in a certain way, and these are the layers I need, so how do I do this?

Explained another way, these are the logical ways to use a MIDI keyboard:

(1) As a real instrument playing a virtual instrument, where you need to capture the performance as precisely as possible in real-time on the fly, in which case the logical strategy is to record the MIDI keyboard in the DAW application, since the focus is on the performance rather than inputting MIDI for the purpose of converting it to music notation . . .

(2) As an advanced input device for purposes of inputting a lot of notes by playing them on piano style keyboard rather than inputting the notes one at a time with the mouse in NOTION 4, where once the notes are input, you expect to do editing, fine-tuning, and so forth in NOTION 4, and when you have finished making adjustments to the music notation, you then will use the music notation to play a virtual instrument which you record in the DAW application as a track, soundbite, or whatever terminology the DAW application uses for recorded audio . . .

The scenario shown in the YouTube video (see above) can be used to play the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments and Expansion Sounds, in which case NOTION 4 is functioning solely as the "engine" for its native virtual instruments which includes sending the generated audio to the DAW application via ReWire 2 channel pairs, and this scenario works, as you can see in the YouTube video where it is being done with NOTION 4 functioning as the "host" for Twin 2, since Twin 2 has its own "engine"; and the Twin 2 "engine" is controlled by instructions sent by NOTION 4 but Twin 2 sends its generated audio to NOTION 4, which in turn forwards the audio to Studio One via a ReWire 2 channel pair, where in this context I am using "host" in the sense of NOTION 4 being a container that holds an instance of the Twin 2 VSTi virtual instrument . . .

When I have more information, I will do a follow-up post . . .

Lots of FUN!

[Surfwhammy]

The following diagram is a high-level overview of the logical way to do everything in a complete digital music production system, and while there are interactions among the various components, at some point the audio (created in the real and virtual universes) needs to reside in the DAW application, because the DAW application is used for the high-level or final producing and mixing of complete songs, which makes it a hierarchy, where everything ultimately feeds the primary DAW application . . .


Complete Digital Music Production System Diagram

From this perspective, NOTION 4, Reason 7, and the Real Instruments and Real Vocalists are the source of the tracks that ultimately are combined and blended to create the song, and they are combined and blended in the DAW application, which is where the high-level producing and mixing is done . . .

There also is producing and mixing done in NOTION 4 and Reason 7, as well as when External Effects are used, but these finished products are recorded as tracks or soundbites in the DAW application where they are subject to the high-level producing and mixing . . .

It also is useful to understand that NOTION 4 is music notation centric, while Reason 7 is sequencer centric, where the general idea is that virtual instruments are played by music notation in NOTION 4, but the various Reason 7 synthesizers and virtual instruments are played by a combination of MIDI and automatically generated sequences, although Reason 7 also functions as a DAW application but within its self-contained environment, which is one way to explain the Reason 7 infrastructure . . .

Reason 7 communicates with the outside world, but it does this exclusively with virtual cables carrying different types of information that is sent by Applications and an External Digital and Audio and MIDI Interface. It does not run outside applications, plug-ins, and so forth, but it has Rack Extensions that are similar to plug-ins and virtual instruments, except that they become part of Reason 7 and run in its self-contained environment . . .

However, both NOTION 4 and Reason 7 have External MIDI functionality, and NOTION 4 can play Reason 7 synthesizers and virtual instruments by sending MIDI messages derived from music notation to Reason 7, and Reason 7 can play virtual instruments in NOTION 4 the same way, and this is done in a ReWire 2 session where the DAW application is the ReWire 2 host controller and both NOTION 4 and Reason 7 are ReWire 2 slaves where the generated audio is recorded in the DAW application, since in a ReWire 2 session all audio is handled by the ReWire 2 host controller . . .

The reason I use these high-level applications to define the complete system is that it covers everything, specifically {real instruments, real vocalists, virtual instruments, effects plug-ins, real external effect units, MIDI, music notation, sequencer-driven virtual instruments, audio clips, and so forth} . . .

In other words, no matter what the source might need to be, you can capture it and get it into the DAW application as a track or soundbite, and this is what makes it a complete system for doing digital music production . . .

Explained another way, I do everything inside a sound isolation studio that is approximately 6 feet wide by 7 feet tall and 12 feet long; and if I need an orchestra for a song, I switch to NOTION 4 and write music notation for the virtual orchestra and then record it in the DAW application as tracks or soundbites in a ReWire 2 session . . .

If I need some real instruments that I play or if I need to sing something, I do this by connecting the real instruments and microphones to the External Digital Audio and MIDI Interface, which digitizes the analog signals and sends them to the Mac Pro computer, but it also handles the MIDI output from real MIDI keyboards and synthesizers . . .

If I need to do something with synthesizers and virtual instruments but I want to do it based on automated sequencers, then I switch to Reason 7 and do the work there, which includes using Rack Extensions, but I can record real instruments and real singing in Reason 7, since Reason 7 also functions as a DAW application, but regardless, the final product audio is recorded in the primary DAW application in a ReWire 2 session . . .

And when everything is recorded in the primary DAW application as tracks or soundbites, I then switch to focusing on producing and mixing, which is where all the individual parts are combined and blended into a finished song, and all the work is done in layers, one part at a time, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!

THOUGHTS

If you already know all this stuff, then fast forward, but it takes a while to understand all this stuff and the way it interacts, so it might be helpful to other folks . . .

As it pertains to the original question, it will be easier for me to provide a bit of help if I have a better understanding of the question, since at present I am not certain that it makes a lot of sense in a way that I can map to the complete system I use . . .

Lots of FUN!

[devonmyles]

I presume you mean record a midi (event) track in Studio One,
and the track, displays (and has been recorded) as a notated track in Notion 4 ?
This would be ideal, but I am pretty sure this does not work (at the moment)

Over at the Studio One forum, we (some/a lot) are hoping they now integrate some kind of
version of N4 into Studio one, ala Cubase/DP8 etc.
Fingers crossed.

Garry

[billshideler]

I presume you mean record a midi (event) track in Studio One,
and the track, displays (and has been recorded) as a notated track in Notion 4 ?
This would be ideal, but I am pretty sure this does not work (at the moment)

Over at the Studio One forum, we (some/a lot) are hoping they now integrate some kind of
version of N4 into Studio one, ala Cubase/DP8 etc.
Fingers crossed.

Garry

Exactly Garry...........Like I said on the PreSonus forum. I was able to do it, but because of a lack of a keyboard shortcut to start recording in Notion (or a direct link with Studio One's record button), it is clumsy at best to make it happen.

TW

[Admin]

There is a new video up on the NotionMusicVideos page detailing how to set up Rewire with Notion and Studio One.

You can find it on YouTube here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Kv0FE ... Wo6w0JXZkJ

-Admin

[devonmyles]

Great stuff and thank you for the heads up.

Garry

[billshideler]

There is a new video up on the NotionMusicVideos page detailing how to set up Rewire with Notion and Studio One.

You can find it on YouTube here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Kv0FE ... Wo6w0JXZkJ

-Admin

Hi Josh,

Great Vid....but what I am specifically looking for is being able to "play in midi" in Studio One, with the corresponding note output going to Notion. This would be a fairly straight forward process, IF Notion would begin recording when the recording begins in Studio One.....IE: I hit the *(asterix) key to begin recording in Studio One and start playing in my midi and Notion 4 ALSO begins recording (without having to switch to the Notion screen to hit the "Start Recording" button).

I hope I am making myself clear

TW