Attention:

Welcome to the old forum. While it is no longer updated, there is a wealth of information here that you may search and learn from.

To partake in the current forum discussion, please visit https://forums.presonus.com

Legato

Re: Legato

Postby dcd111 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:06 am

Admin wrote:...It will always resort to your main sound keyswitch when auditioning...

I could be wrong, but I don't think this is technically correct (although this may not be what is affecting Bill, since the last note in his example is not staccato).

As far as I can tell, Notion ignores the rules files completely during auditioning. It sends no keyswitch at all with auditioned notes, not even the "main" keyswitch, and I don't believe it sends any additional "main" keyswitch at the end of playback, either. So the last keyswitch the plugin "sees" during playback will be the one in effect when it auditions notes after that playback; since all the plugin is receiving is "note-on" messages during auditioning, there's no reason it would switch back to the main articulation.

If a particular plugin requires keyswitches to be held down to trigger an articulation, in a hot-key type mode, then it will go back to whatever articulation is played with no keyswitch for auditioning, because Notion does seem to send an "all notes off" message at the end of playback. But my limited understanding of VSL is that a brief press of a keyswitch will change articulation, and if you don't specifically press the required keyswitch to return to the "main" patch, it won't return to the "main" patch.

Although not with VSL specifically, similar situations are why I have been thinking about including within each rule for non-default articulations a "note-off-prefix" keyswitch or CC change to switch back to the main articulation. It causes no harm because if the next note needs a different articulation, the "note-on-prefix" happens after the "note-off-prefix" of the previous note. This still may not work if you stop playback in the middle of a note, though.

It would be a nice additional feature if auditioned notes were filtered through the custom rules, even if techniques and articulations could not be considered (which would result in use of default settings since no articulations or technique checks would be triggered). This is especially true for plugins that require extensive remapping of pitches, such as most drum kits. It can be disorienting when entering notes on the line for a snare, for example, and hearing some other drum, or no drum at all. I can't think of a way around this unless the instrument itself allows remapping.
dcd111
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Legato

Postby wcreed51 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:48 pm

I solved the issue of getting staccato for a main articulation. There was another rule file that used the PluginID for VIP, and even though I had a groupID assigned to the staff, the two rule sets interacted with a combined effect.

Also, when using GroupID rules, auditioned sounds do NOT get the main keyswitch as they do when PluginID rules are in place. I greatly prefer this behavior!
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
User avatar
wcreed51
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:50 am
Location: Berkshires, MA USA

Re: Legato

Postby dcd111 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:17 am

I never realized before that Plugin ID-based rulesets are processed for auditioned notes, that's interesting. It would definitely be good if Notion could implement this for Group ID rulesets as well.

One imperfect workaround would be to include a simple Plugin ID-based rule-set that identifies what you want Notion to do with auditioned notes for that plugin, and then use Group ID rulesets for your actual playback rules. I just confirmed that the Group ID rulesets take full precedence over Plugin ID rulesets during playback when a Group ID is designated in the score, regardless of the order they appear in your rules files. Even default rules in the Plugin-ID ruleset were ignored completely during playback, as long as a Group ID was designated, although maybe I'm just missing some combination of situations where both get processed together. But Notion then clearly reverts to Plugin ID rules to process auditioned notes. I'm going to try to take advantage of this for drumset plugins, at least, and see if pitch remapping is performed during auditioning when some simple remapping is defined under a Plugin ID ruleset.

Although it is not ideal if you have multiple instruments under the same Plugin ID with different "main" keyswitches that could interfere with each other (which I'll probably run into with Kontakt), it might work if a plugin has consistent keyswitches across most instruments. I don't know if VSL falls under this category?
dcd111
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Legato

Postby wcreed51 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:39 am

No! I much prefer to be able to audition any selected articulation with the keyboard. Having it revert to the main keyswitch is a great annoyance.
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
User avatar
wcreed51
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:50 am
Location: Berkshires, MA USA

Re: Legato

Postby dcd111 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:06 pm

Ah, that's a good point. I misunderstood your last line. I thought you meant you greatly preferred the old behavior.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, I suspect the likelihood of them implementing something like filtering auditioned notes through Group ID rulesets is pretty much zero.
dcd111
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Legato

Postby wcreed51 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:05 pm

*smile*
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
User avatar
wcreed51
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:50 am
Location: Berkshires, MA USA

Re: Legato

Postby benoitberthe » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:01 am

hello,
just a silly question but...
where do i have to put your custom rules file to use it with notion and my VSL SE ?

and by the way,
do you guys have your VSL SE vol 1 + 2 + custom Rules set and working well ? i'm in hell trying to find a way to correctly use my VSL SE and full download instruments with Notion 4 ( last update and presets updates from Notion admin ) but there is still a lot of things i will nedd like Legato perf for all instruments...

anyway if you have some home made quality custom Rules, just would be a great THANKS if you could share it and tell me what wyou've done with it to work in a better VSL+Notion world :)

Thanks,

Benoit.
benoitberthe
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:13 pm

Re: Legato

Postby benoitberthe » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:36 pm

no one can help me ? :(

cheers
benoitberthe
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:13 pm

Re: Legato

Postby wcreed51 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:39 pm

Where to put the rules is described in the documentation.

What is it you want to gain from custom rules for SE? The ones that Notion supplies work rather well.
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
User avatar
wcreed51
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:50 am
Location: Berkshires, MA USA

Re: Legato

Postby benoitberthe » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:20 am

yes indeed, but i thought about if people have worked on more efficients Rules, and also about the instruments that ar not in S Edition...like full download VSL instruments...

anyway...thanks
benoitberthe
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:13 pm

Previous

Return to Custom Rules Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests