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Plugin ID

Plugin ID

Postby Erufailon » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:42 pm

So, here we go again, I fought with Notion 3 custom rules long enough to finaly switch to another scoring software. In that regard it was a lot more useful, but as I wanted something more simple for my laptop I decided to give N4 a try again, and I'm stuck again as we still have to find a way to figure out VST IDs (not to mention it not having a 32 bit vst host in 64 bit mode like most DAWs, while it claims to blend a DAW and a Scoring software into one). Anywho I finaly found replacements for most, but not all 32 bit vsts I need, so I would have started working on custom rules, but since neither VST scanner, nor VST spy can open 64 bit VSTs I can't find a way to find VST IDs. So does someone know it for Musiclab RealGuitar and RealLPC 64 bits versions? To begin with, these are the most important ones for now, but I'd also like to have it for all the EWQL orchestra stuff, RA, EW Pianos, LASS, Pianoteq play, Xils-labs poly KB II player, etc.

It's pretty sad that I moved away from N3 due to having to find workarounds for most of the stuff I wanted to use it for, even though I like to work with it better than many other software, and now I tried N4 and the first thing I had to do is find workarounds for some basic stuff and I still hit walls. :\

I don't even understand, why doesn't the VST manager display the VST ID if Notion forces us to use it? Or if that's not allowed for some reason, why doesn't it allow us to set it ourselves? So I could set ID:1 to realguitar in the vst manager and if it encounters a VST ID: 1 rule in the rules it will use those rules for realguitar? Why not make this user friendly even after a large payed-for update? And why still not create a gui for making rules? If you remember, I made one for Notion3 back then, I wouldn't have been mad if you guys included an official rules-maker with N4.
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Re: Plugin ID

Postby wcreed51 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:23 pm

The plugin ID is for the sample player, not the library that the player plays. All EWQL uses Play, so has the same plugin ID
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
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Re: Plugin ID

Postby Erufailon » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:52 pm

Of course, and what's the workaround for that? Can we use group IDs for vst as well?

But to answer my own question I found out that jbridge creates a text file for the vsts when it creates the bridge files and that has the VST ID in it. I love Notion, but I just can't understand why they make this stuff hard, especially when the whole idea is to have a DAW and a notation software in one, but it only works simply with the included sounds. It can be made to work with other stuff most of the time, but it takes some elbow grease :)
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Re: Plugin ID

Postby dcd111 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:09 am

Notion has just implemented their solution in the latest update 4.0.328. You can now assign rulesets by staff based on a user-assignable group ID, ignoring plugin ID.

For example, let's say you create a ruleset for a particular Library in Kontakt. In the Custom Rules, instead of using <plugin id="NiO5"> and </plugin>, you use <group id="abcd"> (with any four digit code you choose, it is not something built in that you must discover from the library or plugin), and </group>.

Then, in your Notion score, press Shift-Y. The prompt, "Use Rules" will come up. Apply it to the first note of one of your staves, and it will require a four-digit code. Enter "abcd" for the staff to use your "abcd" ruleset. The assigned four-digit code appears in square brackets. You can change the applied ruleset at any point on the staff, just like you can change instrument.

I've now tested this, and it definitely works.

By the way, although it should no longer be necessary, VST plugin ID's are actually easy to discover in Notion. Assign the VST to a staff in any Notion composition, and then press "Shift-I". The four-letter plugin ID for each VST instrument you're using in the composition appears in parantheses. You can then use this plugin ID (like "NiO5" for Kontakt) in the <plugin id="NiO5"> line of your custom rules, you don't have to convert it to the numeric equivalent (although that can be done as well). But Group ID is probably the preferable approach now.
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Re: Plugin ID

Postby Erufailon » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:53 am

Thank you. Now a 32 bit host for the 64 bit version and it's perfect :D
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Re: Plugin ID

Postby wcreed51 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:16 pm

I'm hoping someone will post a sample single instrument rule, to help those of use who've been procrastinating get started :)
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
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Re: Plugin ID

Postby derAbgang » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:50 pm

This makes me quite happy ...

A couple of questions:

    1) Can I define more than one <group /> element per prules file? If so, I assume each <group/> can have a separate <setup /> element as well.

    2) Can I change rule-sets like I can change instruments, i.e., anywhere in the score or are these rule-set changes restricted in some way.
At any rate, cheers, been waiting for something like this for quite some time.

David
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Re: Plugin ID

Postby dcd111 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:14 pm

derAbgang wrote:This makes me quite happy ...

A couple of questions:

    1) Can I define more than one <group /> element per prules file? If so, I assume each <group/> can have a separate <setup /> element as well.

    2) Can I change rule-sets like I can change instruments, i.e., anywhere in the score or are these rule-set changes restricted in some way.
At any rate, cheers, been waiting for something like this for quite some time.

David


1) Yes, I just tested it. I successfully used two different <group id=""> sets in the same .prules file, each with a different velocity map assigned under <setup>. The different velocity maps worked according to which Group ID was assigned in Notion.

2) As far as I can tell, you can change rule-sets anywhere in the score; you press Shift-Y and place the "Use Rules" command on any note or rest anywhere in the composition and then enter the Group ID that you want to be applied at that point. I switched between two Group ID's at different points on the same staff, and the playback changed accordingly when the second Group ID was reached.
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