Attention:

Welcome to the old forum. While it is no longer updated, there is a wealth of information here that you may search and learn from.

To partake in the current forum discussion, please visit https://forums.presonus.com

Note-after-same still a mystery

Re: Note-after-same still a mystery

Postby Admin » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:17 pm

Hi dcd111,

Note-After-Same is a rule that can be used to trigger repititions.

Vienna has the capability to let users create and modify their own repititions. One could conceivably set the note-after-same to trigger a specific matrix, which is setup by the user matrix preset and send a key switch to that user-preset repititions cell in the matrix.

Has someone tried this? Does it work?
User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 7:12 pm

Re: Note-after-same still a mystery

Postby pcartwright » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:42 pm

I can't seem to get it to work in version 4, but I could be misusing the rule. I am attempting in some form or fashion to create a tremolo or roll in GPO's timpani as GPO has very nice "playable tremolo" (as opposed to a separate tremolo patch) on several percussion instruments as well as on most World Instruments.

I've made a similar post here (viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2481&p=11042#p11042).
pcartwright
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Note-after-same still a mystery

Postby dcd111 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:29 am

Admin wrote:Hi dcd111,

Note-After-Same is a rule that can be used to trigger repititions.

Vienna has the capability to let users create and modify their own repititions. One could conceivably set the note-after-same to trigger a specific matrix, which is setup by the user matrix preset and send a key switch to that user-preset repititions cell in the matrix.

Has someone tried this? Does it work?

Just following up, from the above post by Admin it appears that this condition is supposed to be used to trigger repetitions, but as pcartwright and I (and probably others) have found, it does not work this way.

Does Notion have any further thoughts on this? Is the fact that it does not work that way a bug, or are we trying to use it incorrectly in some way?
dcd111
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Note-after-same still a mystery

Postby dgriffee » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:18 pm

...it works now. I have recently used it successfully in a rule to detect repeated notes and trigger a roundrobin for consistently "nonmechanical" sounding performances.

I finally interpreted it to mean "this note comes after a same note", or to put it another way "the note before the current note being tested was the same as this current note"

You may understand this better if you consider that the rules engine would not be able to look ahead at the next note, it has to look backwards at the prior note, if that that makes sense to your way of thinking.
User avatar
dgriffee
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:09 pm

Re: Note-after-same still a mystery

Postby dcd111 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:00 pm

dgriffee wrote:...it works now. I have recently used it successfully in a rule to detect repeated notes and trigger a roundrobin for consistently "nonmechanical" sounding performances.

I finally interpreted it to mean "this note comes after a same note", or to put it another way "the note before the current note being tested was the same as this current note"

You may understand this better if you consider that the rules engine would not be able to look ahead at the next note, it has to look backwards at the prior note, if that that makes sense to your way of thinking.

Interesting, this is always how I expected it should work, but for me it doesn't. I must be doing something wrong. I just tested it again now, and this still does not work this way for me.

I am using this rule for testing purposes:

Code: Select all
      <rule name="implement repeat">
         <if condition="note-after-same" />
         <fixed-pitch pitch="E6" />
      </rule>

When playing a measure of repeated quarter notes, I would expect the second, third, and fourth quarter notes to sound at the E6 pitch, but they do not.
dcd111
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Note-after-same still a mystery

Postby dgriffee » Wed May 01, 2013 10:09 am

check all the rules which follow after that in your rules file, to see if there is any other rule with less spcific conditions that are also being satisfied. Or if you are inclined to find out by experimentation, just make this the last rule in your rules file and test to see if it suddenly begins working, and then if you need to move it up do so a rule at a time until you find it stops working.

Precedence goes from lowest precedence for rules at top of the file to highest precedence on rules at the bottom of the file (kinda counterintuitive, until you consider the sequential processing of the rules and then it makes more sense for human understanding - grin).

So the way the rules engine appears to work, if a note satisfies the conditions of more than one rule in your rules file, only the last such rule in the rules file which has all conditions satisfied will be executed I find it helps to think of it as a sort of "fall through" logic, in other words if you have a rule with very specific conditions at a position in the rules file that is located above another rule with less specific conditions located farthur down below, then note execution will "fall through" the prior of these and be "caught" on the latter, because only the last rule that is logically "true" for a note will actually take effect.

Hope this helps, I stumbled over this same thing many times before I finally nailed it by process of elimination using a totally stripped down rules file to isolate it.
User avatar
dgriffee
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:09 pm

Re: Note-after-same still a mystery

Postby dcd111 » Tue May 07, 2013 6:09 pm

dgriffee wrote:check all the rules which follow after that in your rules file, to see if there is any other rule with less spcific conditions that are also being satisfied. Or if you are inclined to find out by experimentation, just make this the last rule in your rules file and test to see if it suddenly begins working, and then if you need to move it up do so a rule at a time until you find it stops working.
...
Hope this helps, I stumbled over this same thing many times before I finally nailed it by process of elimination using a totally stripped down rules file to isolate it.


Hmm, even after stripping the rules file down to this one rule, it still doesn't work for me. And I know I'm not making a syntax mistake elsewhere in the file, because if I just change the word "same" to "note" it works as expected for the "note-after-note" condition.

I'm at a loss as to why this doesn't work for me but works for others. This is the entire rules file I used:

Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<rule-set version="1">

<!-- These rules are set for a balanced response to NOTION sounds.-->

    <dynamic-map id="chhc">
      <dynamic dynamic="ppppp" value="0" />
      <dynamic dynamic="pppp" value="19" />
      <dynamic dynamic="ppp"  value="28" />
      <dynamic dynamic="pp"   value="39" />
      <dynamic dynamic="p"    value="54" />
      <dynamic dynamic="mp"   value="63" />
      <dynamic dynamic="mf"   value="79" />
      <dynamic dynamic="f"    value="84" />
      <dynamic dynamic="ff"   value="95" />
      <dynamic dynamic="fff"  value="103" />
      <dynamic dynamic="ffff" value="116" />
      <dynamic dynamic="fffff" value="127" />
   </dynamic-map>

<plugin id="1315524405">

      <setup>
         <velocity-map id="chhc" />
         <hairpin-map id="chhc" />
         <hairpin-cc value="11" />
<!--         <hairpin-anchor value="75" /> -->
      </setup>
      
<!-- This must be the 1st Rule -->                  
      
      <rule name="main sound">
         <set-flag name="main"/>
      </rule>

<!-- Implement Repeat -->

      <rule name="implement repeat">
         <if condition="note-after-same"/>
         <fixed-pitch pitch="E6" />
      </rule>
   
<!-- Reset to main sound rule. This MUST be the last rule! -->

      <rule name="main keyswitch">
         <if flag="main"/>
      </rule>   
                                    
</plugin>

</rule-set>
dcd111
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Note-after-same still a mystery

Postby dcd111 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:47 pm

I've gone around and around with this, and still have not been able to get this to work. I've tried various plugins, with stripped down rules where the only rule is based on <if condition="note-after-same" />. It just doesn't trigger for me.

Does anybody have any other ideas for what I could be doing wrong? Has anyone else other than dgriffee been able to get this to work?
dcd111
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm


Return to Custom Rules Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest