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SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Share Custom Rules for NOTION3 and NOTIONSLE

SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Postby Yves » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:02 pm

Dear All,

While waiting the download of my Notion4 expansion sounds (63hrs left... no kidding!), I thought the moment was appropriate to share with you my customs rules for Synful Orchestra and Wivi Band. http://www.synful.com/index.htm / http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/

For those who do not know thoses instruments, Synful Orchestra and Wivi Band are High End Synthesized orchestra instruments. That means they have a very high "expressity" that does not depends of few dynamic samples (usualy from 3 levels for VSL special editions and Eastwest to 8-12 for some few VSL instruments, and 10-18 for EastWest Piano and 100 for the only Vienna Imperial Piano), but a continuous gradual variation (smooth continuous expressivity) that does not creates any "dynamic steps expressivity".

As synthetizer instruments, Synful orchestra or Wivi Band, a "staccato articulation" is a note played with a "staccato length" and not a keyswitch to a different kind of samples technique. Same thing for all expressions/articulation.
I have done some extensive test and long hours of listening to set up this custom rules and find the right length for each articulation and slurs.

I am a perfectionist, and while I do not think that my custom rules are yet perfect, I believe they are a good compromise with the actual limitation of the custom rules of Notion3 (I have no idea yet if Notion4 brings improvment in this field). As a necessary improvment in the custom rules, high or low bpm/tempo should be able to interact with our rules/technique, as for exemple in extreme tempos, a staccato note should be a break of "x" milliseconds between two notes instead of a fraction of time of the note length.
Also to succeed fortepiano or sforzando technique we should be able to interact on some midi CC during the note length and not only at the start or the end of the note. All those sugestions should not be too complicate to implement... aren't some available within cubase "vst expression"?

I realy hope Notion team could implement such custom rules management in the future!

While I love Vienna Instruments and East West products that produce perfectly recording samples with amazing sound and presence, this lack of "nuances" between samples are sometimes an important inconvenient as for the "abrupt" transition between different articulations or techniques. I use to play my synful or wivi instruments "live" with my Akai EWI USB wind controller, and you can hear in the demo area of Synful some demos I made, especially "Errance pour Piano, Flute et Violon" where all instruments are played live from my Piano or Akai EWI, and you could hear what I meant by this "smooth continuous expressivity" (synful) as opposed to "dynamic steps expresivity" (of sample librairies). http://www.synful.com/User%20Demos.htm
Automatic divisi, wide section of strings management, and slurs/portamento/vibrato lightly tonging simulation and finger movement along the string in anticipation of the next incoming note when "delay for expression" is activated (http://www.synful.com/RPM.htm), have achieved to convinced me long time ago about the advantage of a 250Mb synthesizer as opposed to a 1To sample libraries.
When writing crescendo or diminuendo in Notion, the improvment of Synful and Wivi are undeniable as compared with samples librairies!

Why I tell you all of this? Because I hope other Notion users can adopt those instruments or that other Synful and Wivi users can adopt Notion... and help us improve our custom rules with those programs! Setting and composing with a full orchestra as been so much easier since I use Notion!

I have a special thought to PCCARTWRIGHT that mentioned those two programs:

PCCARTWRIGHT: thank you for sharing your GPO custom rules that helped me a lot writing my own rules, and I hope this custom rules will help you too! ;)

ps: do not forget to rename/include the rules in your own "custom_rules.prules"

I am sorry for the various editing: I had troubles attaching my file... this is now fixed!
Attachments
SYNFUL-WIVI.zip
custom rules for Synful Orchestra and Wivi Band
(2.78 KiB) Downloaded 256 times
Last edited by Yves on Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Notion 4/Sonar X3 producer/Reason 7-Akai EWI USB/Yamaha C2s
Synful/Wivi/VSL inst./Miroslav/GPO4/N3 Exp. Sounds/QL Solo Violin/Hauptwerk
EW Symphonic Choirs+VOP/Vocaloid 3 Prima+Tonio
QL Pianos/Garritan Steinway/EZKeys/Pianoteq 4
Waves/Clariphonic/Maag
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Re: SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Postby pcartwright » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:28 pm

Yves wrote:PCCARTWRIGHT: thank you for sharing your GPO custom rules that helped me a lot writing my own rules, and I hope this custom rules will help you too! ;)


Thank you for the kind words, Yves. I'm glad that you found the GPO rules useful, and I definitely intend on using our WIVI rules (and Synful rules once I buy the product... maybe an early Christmas gift :)).

Also, have you looked at the new rule documentation with Notion 4? It looks like we can both look to revise our rules with some additional capabilities.

Regards
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Re: SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Postby Yves » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:16 pm

thanks PCcartwright, this is motivating to see other users like you exploring those amazing orchestral synthesizer!!!

about NOTION 4:
Unfortunately, I still have not downloaded all bundled sounds... this is so frustrating as I still continue to get errors, with a so... so... slow downloading speed... this recall me of the patience we had during the early ages of computer and modems!
I should be really upset with my 15Mo adsl line to not be able to download a 7Go after 2 days, but I have decided to think of the well deserved success of Notion 4, instead of my problem of download...

Also, have you looked at the new rule documentation with Notion 4? It looks like we can both look to revise our rules with some additional capabilities.

Right after your email, I have explored the Notion 4 folders to find documentations on the custom rules inside Notion 4 (that I finally get on the download area of the website), and seeing the "techniqueslist.xml" made me recall that I had to edit it to add the most comun used articulations inside the vsti description like:
Code: Select all
   <instrument-technique force-valid='yes'>
      <link>vsti</link><instrument-id>0</instrument-id><technique>flut</technique>
   </instrument-technique>

that will add the flutter technique in the toolbox of all vsti instruments.
We exchanged a lot on our custom rules, but we should not forget that so many other things are customizable inside Notion XML oriented program!

For Wivi, I have added all the comun techniques (bucket/solotone/mute), so they can be displayed on the vsti technique list directly.
The next step of my customization would be to see how to differentiate the vsti between them, and/or the instrument inside each vsti, so each instrument could have its own list of technique and not only the comun list of technique of all vsti...
If anybody already succeed to differentiate Vsti instrument in the "TechniqueList.xml" file, the help would be greatly appreciated!!!! 8-)

Now, i will explore the pdf inside "N4_Custom_Rules_Downloads"... :D
Notion 4/Sonar X3 producer/Reason 7-Akai EWI USB/Yamaha C2s
Synful/Wivi/VSL inst./Miroslav/GPO4/N3 Exp. Sounds/QL Solo Violin/Hauptwerk
EW Symphonic Choirs+VOP/Vocaloid 3 Prima+Tonio
QL Pianos/Garritan Steinway/EZKeys/Pianoteq 4
Waves/Clariphonic/Maag
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Re: SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Postby Yves » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:48 pm

Whaou!!!!! :D

just read some fantastic new functions!!!
thank you 1000! the Notion Team!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


just to mentioned some of those new functions that will definitely improve a lot our custom rules, and as a final result the expressivity of our notations playback:
Code: Select all
<if dynamic-ge="f" />
...
<duration-change amount="0.7" max="1.25" />
...


and the function that was missing to get perfect rules for Synful and Wivi as i wrote in my first post:
Code: Select all
<end-gap duration="0.15" />
<end-gap min="0.2" max="0.5" />
In the first case, shorten the note 0.15 seconds from the
notated duration.
For the second case:
Notes that are 1/10th of a second or less will have a gap of
0.2 seconds.
Notes that are 1 second or more will have a gap of 0.5
seconds.
In between 1/10th and 1 second, the gap will be proportional
between 0.2 and 0.5 seconds.


dear Notion Team... you rocks! 8-)

I think I will have some hard time getting some rest the week end with all those new functions! ;)
Notion 4/Sonar X3 producer/Reason 7-Akai EWI USB/Yamaha C2s
Synful/Wivi/VSL inst./Miroslav/GPO4/N3 Exp. Sounds/QL Solo Violin/Hauptwerk
EW Symphonic Choirs+VOP/Vocaloid 3 Prima+Tonio
QL Pianos/Garritan Steinway/EZKeys/Pianoteq 4
Waves/Clariphonic/Maag
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Posts: 43
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Re: SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Postby cbandla » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:20 am

Yves,

Thank you very much for the custom rule set for Synful. I downloaded the trial yesterday and have been playing with it in Notion. It may not be totally realistic but it's a wonderfully expressive instrument and a match made in heaven with Notion for me. I find the staff based interface liberates my composing by not having to play what I write. It helps me to keep from writing what I know how to play, if that makes any sense.

I look forward to improvements in your custom rules and I believe I'll be looking into a Synful license in the near future.

Charles Bandla
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Re: SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Postby Yves » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:38 pm

thank you for your feedback!

cbandla wrote:It may not be totally realistic but it's a wonderfully expressive instrument and a match made in heaven with Notion for me.

This is where I had also spent a lot of time... on improving the sound quality of Synful (while being hyper realist on all articulations play), as I found Synfull to be a bit "dull" in high register.

My conclusion in 3 steps to get a 100% fully realistic sound with Synful:
1) aural exciter - I use Waves audio plugin "Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter" with preset "VG strings".... wonderfull natural noise!!!
2) EQ to shape lower register and boost after 3K and more to give more "breath" - I use Melda AutoEQ : this is important to learn and compare the EQ curve of different good recordings CDs before applying an eq curve to corect any instrument, in the case of synful, both a small reduction of low medium and boost of high frequency achieve an incredible realism.
3) "Mic recording oriented" convolution reverb - I use EastWest Space. I made several tries with different kind of convolution reverb, and EasWest approcach to record all instrument convolutions response as a real recording (with dedicated mic and speaker orientation for all kind of instruments, position, preamp and mix console same as used for orchestral recording in real condition) brings an inestimate realism to virtual instrument like Synful and Wiviband.

if I have to rate those 3 steps in order of improvment of sound achievement, the first move is a good EQ (like melda autoeq) that achieve 90% of the improvment of the sound of Synful, then the convolution reverb, that cast the sound in a real space... and because I can't stop thinking improving my overall sound quality: there is the Aural exciter, that is doing a special complex frequency harmony/EQ boost that gives a sparkling sound on the high register. I made several tries to apply aural exciter alone, and then learn the eq curve with melda autoeq, and then replace aural exciter with the learned eq curve from melda auto eq: but in a blind hearing session, I was still able to recognize the improvment of Aural Exciter against an EQ. My setup place Aural exciter before EQ...

cbandla wrote: I find the staff based interface liberates my composing by not having to play what I write. It helps me to keep from writing what I know how to play, if that makes any sense.

Same for me! :) staff composition helps a lot to build quickly big orchestra scores!
and with the new custome rules of Notion 4, we will improve again a lot the realism of playback with Synful, as most of the new rules will allow to controle the playback in a more accurate way for synthetizer oriented sound like Synful or Wivi, as we need to control the gap between two notes to produce better staccato than just a % reduction of the note length... this is now accessible in Notion 4 rules! :D
Notion 4/Sonar X3 producer/Reason 7-Akai EWI USB/Yamaha C2s
Synful/Wivi/VSL inst./Miroslav/GPO4/N3 Exp. Sounds/QL Solo Violin/Hauptwerk
EW Symphonic Choirs+VOP/Vocaloid 3 Prima+Tonio
QL Pianos/Garritan Steinway/EZKeys/Pianoteq 4
Waves/Clariphonic/Maag
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Yves
 
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Re: SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Postby Migot » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:49 pm

Yves,

You are looking as a «sample modelling» fan!

So, just have a look on this :
http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products_clarinets.php

This is the Best I know...

Alain
Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

Notion 4,
VSL SE 1,2,Plus, MIRx
DP8, Finale 2012
OS X 10.9.3, Mavericks
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Re: SYNFUL orchestra and WIVI Band Custom rules

Postby Yves » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:22 pm

Hi Migot,
samplemodeling... This where where the creators of "The Stradivari Violin" and "The Gofriller Cello" where hiding!!!
I never understood why Garritan ended those two wonderfull instrument...

Yes, this approach brings a great expressivity. In the case of synful and wiviband, you do not need any keyswitch which is even a grater improvment!
Samplemodeling latest "Soprano and bass clarinet" seems to include such feature.
I will follow up closely samplemodeling futur development especially on the string instrument field... :-) :D

For now, i am still testing how to best implement the new custom rules of notion4 with synful and wiviband.
Notion 4/Sonar X3 producer/Reason 7-Akai EWI USB/Yamaha C2s
Synful/Wivi/VSL inst./Miroslav/GPO4/N3 Exp. Sounds/QL Solo Violin/Hauptwerk
EW Symphonic Choirs+VOP/Vocaloid 3 Prima+Tonio
QL Pianos/Garritan Steinway/EZKeys/Pianoteq 4
Waves/Clariphonic/Maag
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Yves
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:38 am


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