Notion 3 EWQL templates eating too much ram

[ccmusicman]

Hey,

I'm not sure what happened, but the templates that build 250 introduced as a way to load a full orchestra under 2 gigs is no longer working.

Maybe it was the play update or a notion update...

But it now takes me to almost 4 gigs to load the "lite" full orchestra template, at which point notion basically crashes.

Any way to fix this...

Or better yet...any word on a 64 bit notion?

Rob

[kelldammit]

i'm eating 2g pretty quickly with GPO as well. hopefully x64 is coming soon...?

[ccmusicman]

2 gig's with GPO?

Wow...

Yes, 64 bit edition of notion needs to come very soon.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to really use notion at all.

Lubo, how quick are you guys getting this out the door?

[kelldammit]

2 gig's with GPO?
Wow...
Yes, 64 bit edition of notion needs to come very soon.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to really use notion at all.
Lubo, how quick are you guys getting this out the door?

yeah, i thought it was pretty crazy, too. gpo's ENTIRE installation folder (samples, patches, the whole deal) takes up just shy of 2g on my hard disk, so you would think you could be a complete lunatic and load EVERY instrument (including the duplicate SAM brass stuff), and not have a problem. i don't need every instrument, but what i do end up using is just too much. i've found some workarounds...but it'd be nice to not have to do that.
on the other hand, the built-in library seems to run using about 1/2 the memory that gpo needs for a given ensemble.
i suppose i could start using yellow tools symphonic orchestra (it supports dsd rather than loading everything into RAM), but i'd have to do all of the custom definitions for it...and i really prefer the sound of gpo.

out of curiousity, why haven't you been able to use notion? i've found the occasional glitch, but no show-stoppers thus far...

kell

[ccmusicman]

I've not been able to use notion for that reason - no 64 bit.

I write huge orchestral composition and I own EWQL. I can write then import into sonar using the LSO sounds - but that isn't why I got EWQl and Notion.

Notion said it was 64 bit compatible (silly me thinking it was 64 bit), and that it integrates seamlessly with EWQLSO Gold and Platinum.

Well it does...but what good does it do me if I can only write for a small string section?

I built a high end computer, spent 1000 bucks on software only to find out that I have to do more programming just to "get it to work".

That isn't why I purchased notion. I purchased for out of box solution, which I thought notion supplied - I can't program worth a hoot and my keyboard skills are atrocious. Thus, why I choose notion.

Thus - no using notion until a 64 bit version comes out.

Rob

[Erufailon]

Guys, why don't u use the midi-out ports? Ok, it's only 4 midi outs, but that should cover any large orchestral template if u use keyswitched instruments. I run a full orchestra with ew pianos, SD2, choirs and a few RA instruments as needed, sometimes some MOR (tho not too often), and it all fits into 8G RAM and plays back nice in real time, no problems. Just need to use keyswitches and midi-out and u get 4x16 instruments, that should be enough.

[kelldammit]

Guys, why don't u use the midi-out ports? Ok, it's only 4 midi outs, but that should cover any large orchestral template if u use keyswitched instruments. I run a full orchestra with ew pianos, SD2, choirs and a few RA instruments as needed, sometimes some MOR (tho not too often), and it all fits into 8G RAM and plays back nice in real time, no problems. Just need to use keyswitches and midi-out and u get 4x16 instruments, that should be enough.

it's a good point, and a pragmatic workaround. however, if i go back to drawing in keyswitches, etc, i might as well just sequence it all in my daw, and just use notion to clean up the notation after the fact. for me, that basically defeats the purpose of having bought notion in the first place. the seamless integration with my library (so i didn't have to mess with that stuff anymore) was a key selling point for me, and as ccmusicman mentioned the "64 bit os support" is a bit misleading. had i bought the SLE version (i came close), i'd really be screwed, because afaik, i'd have no option to use another instrument as a workaround.
so, this will simply have to be addressed. barring true 64-bit operation, they could just spawn each instrument in a separate process from notion. this way, you could run as many instruments as required, and as long as no individual instrument exceeds 2gb ram usage, you could run HUGE projects without issue.

[EDIT] I hope i didn't come across as harsh or anything toward the notion guys...i'm sure they're aware and are working on this stuff. despite the apparent negativity, it'd take a seriously long post to outline the things they've done RIGHT as compared to the competition. [/EDIT]

kell

[ccmusicman]

Yes, I tried the whole midi outs with various software...I wasted almost 30 hours trying to get the stupid thing set up right, and in the end I couldn't get it to work.

I then tried to write the rules, but I'm clueless about all that stuff.

I ended up extremely frustrated by the "workarounds". I wanted a solution that worked out of box and notion failed to supply as promised.

I'm a musician and a composer. I'm old fashioned, I write mostly by paper.

I'm not a programmer or audio tech person.

As it is now, I've wasted time, money and emotional frustrations with Notion and unless they come out with a free 64 bit upgrade, I won't buy from them ever again.

Rob

[pcartwright]

Have you tried using JBridge with this plugin? I've had mixed success with it, but it could allow you to access additional RAM beyond the 32 bit limited.

[Erufailon]

however, if i go back to drawing in keyswitches

You don't have to draw them, just create the rules so notion will take care of it. I've even created a rule editor for this purposewith a GUI, so you don't have to write xml files (tho I haven't updated it since the latest 2 patches, due to lack of interest). N3 works, and it is very simple to use, and it is very easy and though it requires a little bit of work while creating your setup, afterwards while composing you only need to compose, and u don't even have to think about any technicality. Truth be told, I'm just surprised, because I did all this when it wasn't even documented. OK, I'm more technical, but still, it wasn't that hard to figure it out for myself. Now it's even well documented, and I just don't know how people can't get it to work. And I even feel sorry about that, because N3 is the easiest solution I know, and I'd hate to see it go down.
Obviously they should make it x64 and they should create a graphical interface to edit rules inside Notion, and on the fly ASAP. If I was CEO of Notionmusic, I'd make this top priority and stop everything else 'till it's done. But I'm not, I'm just a customer, and even though it's not perfect now, it is definietly working as it is, better than anything else.

ccmusicman:
Why couldn't you set it up? Very simple, use a virtual midi cable (for win7 x64 presently the only one I know of is loopbe), and use it to connect N3 to your x64 host (for example cantabile lite, which is free, or directly to EW play). That's it, then you midi-out staff will send their midi messages to you x64 host. Simple.
As for the rules, the documentation isn't that hard. For midi-outs I have a GUI for editing them posted somewhere around here (which was a source of frustration for me, because people keep complaining they can't edit the rules, it's too techy, so I created a GUI for it, so you'd only have to click -I even took the time to learn java just for this-, pretty self-explanatory, yet for the exception of a few, ppl didn't even look at it, just kept complaining), but besides that, u just have to use the if midi-channel expression to decide which channel the rule affects, and you have to write those rules like this:
<midi-out id="A">

<setup>
<velocity-map id="dvel" />
<hairpin-map id="dvel" />
<hairpin-cc value="1" />
</setup>

RULES GO HERE

</midi-out>

Of course you have to define "dvel" as a dynamics map as seen in any examples, and you have to make 4 of these sections, one for each midi-out. Hairpin-cc value is the control code u want the hairpins to affect, in this case I set it to 1, so it affects the modulation wheel, by default the N3 rulesets have it as 11, expression.
And yes, you could also try Jbridge instead of all this, I haven't had any success with it, when I tried, because each instance of play would take 500MB of RAM even when empty, but I haven't tried it with play 2.0, that might behave differently, but I'm not upgrading anything, because my present setup is perfect.