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Extension Woodwind bundle

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Re: Extension Woodwind bundle

Postby Johnny » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:36 pm

wilhoit wrote:Norman Del Mar, The Anatomy of the Orchestra (1981)


A friend gave me that book years ago. In all honesty, I sadly haven't read it in detail much. He said it was a must read. I'll have to dig it out off the shelve.

FWIW__ As for favorite books; "Music Notation --Gardner/Read" is priceless! I've had that book for 25 years and was glad to here the Forum Administrator mention it once or twice in response to a users comment\question about notation practices.

Can't help mention another one of many favorites is "Harmony and Voice Leading -Aldwell\Schachter.
My bass teacher had recommended it years ago and that too I find quite good.

Anyway, maybe after I get back into "The Anatomy of the Orchestra" we can open a tread and discuss some of the principles and uses of it in Notion.
Thanks for reminding me of that book Frank.

,Johnny

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Re: Extension Woodwind bundle

Postby lclemmons » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Well.. If you find Wikipedia to be even potentially reliable...

In 1907 the Scott Paper Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, introduced paper towels to help prevent the spread of colds from cloth towels in restrooms.[1] Popular belief is that this was partly by accident and was the solution of what to do with a railroad car full of long paper rolls meant for toilet paper that was unsuitable to cut into rolls of toilet paper.[2] In 1919, William E. Corbin, Henry Chase, and Harold Titus began experimenting with paper towels in the Research and Development building of the Brown Company in Berlin, New Hampshire.[3] By 1922, Corbin perfected their product and began mass-producing it at the Cascade Mill on the Berlin/Gorham line.[4] This product was called Nibroc Paper Towels (Corbin spelled backwards[5]). In 1931, the Scott Paper Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, introduced their paper towel for kitchens. They are now the leader of the manufacture of paper towels.


Would they have made their way to germany that fast?

I believe the first cardboard tubes appeared in the US in the very early 1900s. 1903 sticks in my mind but knowing my mind it is probably wrong :D I would suspect they existed in europe or Asia (the chineese had a form of carboard as far back as 1600s. Just don't know when they started making tubes.) before the turn of the century. Common use may be another matter though.

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Re: Extension Woodwind bundle

Postby wilhoit » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:21 am

I'll put y'all'n out of your misery here.

In the first place, we're not talking about paper towels. The relevant Wikipedia article is this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper . First roll dispenser: 1883. First performance of the Ring, including bassoon low A's: 1876(*). In any case, toilet paper continued to be sold in a flat pack in many European countries until after WWII. It took up less volume in a suitcase that way and travellers typically bought their own, not knowing whether it would be available at their destination.

Wagner, with his unaccountable powers of persuasion, was often able to persuade instrument makers to build instruments to his extended ranges. A bassoon with low A may have been built for the occasion; or any sort of stout paper could have been rolled up on the spur of the moment.

(*) ...and I've just noticed, while checking Forsyth to see if he mentions extension techniques or extended instruments (he doesn't), that he says Tristan also has the low A.
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Bundled sounds + Woodwind extensions
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Re: Extension Woodwind bundle

Postby thorrild » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:14 pm

Just found this on a woodwind blog, in response to someone's question about how to get a low A without spending a fortune:

"There are three useful ways to play low A on a standard bassoon. 1) an empty paper towel tube* stuck in the bassoon bell (maybe toilet paper tube as well) 2) an Engligh Horn bell placed upside down in the bassoon bell ($$$) and 3) pulling your embouchure back to the tip of the reed while fingering low B flat (this is a tricky one).

* I have seen black felt glued to a properly cut-to-length cardboard tube for a more stylish look on stage."

Best,
Thorrild

The link:
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread ... stallation
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Re: Extension Woodwind bundle

Postby wilhoit » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:02 pm

Okay, y'all forced me to do the math. A semitone at that pitch requires a tube extension of about six inches (neglecting the end correction). A toilet paper roll isn't long enough. Bang (or, as who should say, flush) goes that myth. The Nielsen anecdote stands, but we still have no explanation for the Wagner citations, barring des Meisters Furz.

Thirty years ago, the first thing seen by train travellers northbound towards Philadelphia was the Scott Paper factory in Chester, Pennsylvania (doubtless abandoned and possibly demolished by now). It had a huge billboard on top with a monstrous roll of toilet paper and the slogan "What Chester makes, makes Chester" -- a claim that met with universal agreement.

Thanks,
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Re: Extension Woodwind bundle

Postby Surfwhammy » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:17 am

wilhoit wrote:A semitone at that pitch requires a tube extension of about six inches (neglecting the end correction). A toilet paper roll isn't long enough.


Interesting calculation! :)

Remember that this was over 100 years ago, so it is important to put everything into an historical perspective, where the key bit of information is that at the turn of the 20th century, "paper" typically referred to kraft paper, newsprint, and so forth, which were provided on various types of rolls . . .

In this context, a "paper roll" might be the roll onto which kraft paper used in a delicatessen or similar food shop was rolled . . .

This is a photograph of a modern Bassoon extender made of ABS tubing, but there are more elaborate extensions made by highly skilled craftsmen who design and build Bassoons, although at a considerably greater price than the typical approximately $10 (US) for the simple ABS version available from Forrests . . .

Image
ABS Plastic Bassoon Extender ~ Forrests: The Double Reed Specialists®

THOUGHTS

PVC pipes filled with absorbing material can be used to control various types of low-frequency standing waves in a sound isolation studio, and as such they are Helmholtz resonators that "absorb" the undesired standing waves to which they are attuned . . .

Rolls of fiberglass insulation and cubes of compressed cellulose tend to work better, since they are not so focused on a small range of frequencies, which is the reason I use rolls of fiberglass insulation and cubes of compressed cellulose as low frequency "treatments" here in the sound isolation studio, which is a room within a room within a room and has a fully floated floor . . .

Image

Image

Yet another curious use of tubes was Quincy Jones having Michael Jackson sing the vocal overdubs for "Billie Jean" through a "six-foot long cardboard tube", which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!
:D
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Re: Extension Woodwind bundle

Postby tubatimberinger » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:12 pm

I can confirm it is common for bassoonists to place tubing (of whatever they have available) in their instruments to produce lower notes than the standard range. They can go as low as Ab this way. How in-tune and pleasant sounding it will be is a different matter.

-t
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