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Contrabass Playback

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Contrabass Playback

Postby idiotSavant » Fri May 23, 2014 7:08 pm

This is a post from over at the VSL Forum:

andi:
All notation programs I know will do the transposition for Contrabass (or Doublebass) staves automatically. So you can write your Bass notes as you are used to and the correct pitch will be triggered.


Does anyone know if Notion transposes contrabass string parts an octave down? The testing I've done indicates that it does not, and therefore I should be manually transposing all my scores.
Michael

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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby Johnny » Fri May 23, 2014 10:43 pm

Db transposition.notion
An example of Notion transposition of the double bass
(71.1 KiB) Downloaded 197 times
Hi Michael,
Yes, Notion transposes the double bass correctly. The "Staff Transposition Setting" for Dbs is set so that what you hear is 1 octave lower than written.
For there use in live performance some companies sound libraries do the transposition in there "Player".
I like the way Notion does it as a staff setting.

The file attachment is a Notion 4 document that you can see and hear the transition difference of the piano vs. Dbs.

, Johnny

back to it! :arrow:
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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby idiotSavant » Sat May 24, 2014 12:01 am

Johnny, thanks. I've discovered that what you say is true if you use the Notion or other presets. However, if you create a basic staff to call a VST instrument, as I do, then the transposition function does not work. I have to transpose the staff myself manually. No big deal, but now I know. And I was wondering why my recordings had no low end...

:oops:
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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby Johnny » Sat May 24, 2014 1:31 am

A Basic Staff IMO is really a "Default" empty staff with no real purpose except for illustrative uses.
When you insert a "Basic Staff" in Notion the piano is the default instrument. The piano is not a transposing instrument.
You can change the "Staff Setup" to a different transposition; however, if an "Instrument Change" is made to that "Basic Staff" it's settings ie. transpose etc. take on the settings of the "Newly Changed Instrument Staff."
----CHECK OUT THE ATTACHED Notion 4 DOCUMENT. It might be confusing; however, I made this example quickly.

In my case with the EWQLSO Platinum Library the double bass gets it's own instance because in Notion a Multi-channel instance only has 1 staff transpose setting shared by all of the instrument channels. If you change any! it will change all! of the instruments transpose settings in the Multi-Channel instance.
The Notion Preset puts all the EWQL strings (Vln,Vla,Cel and Bas) into (one) Multi-Channel instance which leads to the confusion. In Notion the staff setup transpose setting effects all of the channels of a Multi-Channel instance of the related sample player.

Hope you will find something in this discussion that will help in the understanding of our friend "Notion Notation Software".

, Johnny

I'm back to it; :arrow:
Attachments
Basic Staff Transposing.notion
Example of instrument change/transposing
(77.74 KiB) Downloaded 179 times
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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby Johnny » Sat May 24, 2014 4:19 am

I must say that it's strange but the preset in Notion 4 for the EWQLSO (Full Score) doesn't use a visible transpose feature/parameter change for the double bass.
However the cello and double bass use the bass clef yet the DB sounds and is definitely transposed 1 octave down. I can't find a parameter changed in any! staff setup or the sample player (EWQL Play) either.

Since the preset was created by the folks at Notion it may be that they added some changes to the staves in the background somewhere that I can't reproduce from the Score Setup Page.

I also notice that the track bracing feature works differently when loading the "Full Score" template as opposed to when I add my staves individually.
Notion 4 has some unexplained quirks and some undocumented features that hopefully will be addressed sooner than later.

I Still enjoy this advanced music tool and it's potential's.

,Johnny

back to it - :arrow:
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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby idiotSavant » Sat May 24, 2014 3:09 pm

I use a basic staff for an instrument in Vienna Ensemble (which is all the staves I write). That way it doesn't call an unneeded instrument at the beginning of a piece (and create an unneeded mixer channel also) just to change it when it sees the call for a VE Instrument.

I suspect this has to do with the oddities around transposition of basic staves and the use of Vienna Ensemble. It's no big deal, I just lost my low end. Now I know where it went!
Michael

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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby Surfwhammy » Sat May 24, 2014 3:36 pm

A NOTION 4 Basic Staff is different from a VST Instruments staff . . .

Image

Image

They might be the same if you assign a VSTi virtual instrument to a Basic Staff, but perhaps not . . .

THOUGHTS

If I assign Twin 2 (FabFilter Software Instruments) to a Basic Staff, it looks identical to the VST Instruments staff created for Twin 2, so they probably are the same; but there are other things that happen in the background, and without doing experiments I am not so comfortable stating that they are the same in every respect and behavior . . .

I use VST Instruments staves, and by default they are soprano treble clef staves; but depending on the instrument I set them to play notes 1 or 2 octaves higher or lower than notated, which works nicely here in the sound isolation studio where there are 12 notes and 8 or so octaves . . .

If I wanted to know how to read bass clef, I would have gone to bass clef school . . .

Stuff like that is not on the lesson plan in "by ear" school, which is my alma mater after graduating from liturgical boys choir . . .

I hear it in my mind, and I can play it on a Fender Jazz Bass, but it all looks like soprano treble clef to me . . .

There is only one "Middle C" on a piano, and there is only one "Middle C" on a soprano treble clef staff, which is all the "Middle C" I need, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :ugeek:
Last edited by Surfwhammy on Mon May 26, 2014 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby Johnny » Sat May 24, 2014 8:55 pm

Surfwhammy wrote:If I wanted to know how to read bass clef, I would have gone to bass clef school . . .

Stuff like that is not on the lesson plan in "by ear" school, which is my alma mater after graduating from liturgical boys choir . . .

I hear it in my mind, and I can play it on a Fender Jazz Bass, but it all looks like soprano treble clef to me . . .

Fabulous! :ugeek:


Surf,
You hijacked yet another! post "Here! in the Notion Web Forum".
Hopefully you will somehow sometimes find a way to listen without adding your useless comments.

Notion software is designed and fashioned to use what is called "Conventional Music Notation".
Why do you! Surfwhammy insist on repeatedly trying to convince and teach others that your "UNCONVENTIONAL" method of Music Notation and the use a Notion with your "WRONG WAY" Mr. know it all ego is somehow worth exploring?

You are not a teacher and your methods are long winded to say the least.


World history has given us thousands of years of knowledge and wisdom.
Try learning some of it. For the most part learning costs nothing except your self- surrendered attention.
I think you'll find and accomplish more rewarding results.

, Johnny
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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby Migot » Sun May 25, 2014 8:04 am

Johnny,

«Notion software is designed and fashioned to use what is called "Conventional Music Notation".»
Agree with you !

So,
My first language is French an my English is So...So !

I do not use EW Library and I'm not sure that I really understand what you want to achieve!

About Double-bass set on a basic staff, could it be helping if you use a - 8 bassa Bass Clef - ?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahzcjk65ah39b ... 20Clef.png

hope to help

Alain
P.-S. I'm a old school music composer happy to use Notion...
Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

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Re: Contrabass Playback

Postby Johnny » Sun May 25, 2014 1:53 pm

Hello, Alain
Everything is good.

Earlier in the posting "Michael" asked, "Does anyone know if Notion transposes contrabass string parts an octave down?

My answer was yes!
Yes if! the 'Staff Settings" are set to "-1 octave down".

The "attached" Notion file should illustrate the things to understand when using Multi-Channel Staves.

Each Staff has "only" (1) one transpose parameter setting.
In a group of instruments ie. (String Section) the Double Bass is a transposing instrument.
So, It needs it's own "Staff" (SAMPLE PLAYER INSTANCE) to have it's own transpose parameter setting.

No problems here. I find everything works good now.

, Johnny

I'm going back to it; :arrow:
Attachments
EWQL Multi-Ch Transposition.notion
Transposing for Multi-Channel Staves
(1.18 MiB) Downloaded 176 times
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