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Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

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Re: Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

Postby SouLcRusaDer_kA » Wed May 21, 2014 4:01 am

first of all, thanks
and...
done!!!!! :D

i didnt know that i have to click the "speaker icon" under 'mute' , 'solo' button in S1
(if i dont click it, it just play one track in a time)

so far i feel good about this setup
now, Notion is like...um...integrated into S1
when im still composing and need to know how the sound is,
i simply click space-bar, and it do a playback(without recording)

when i need to edit velocity intensively, just record midi notes to DAW

everything is good except i have to wait it patiently during the MIDI note-recording
anyway to speed it up?
SouLcRusaDer_kA
 
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Re: Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

Postby Surfwhammy » Wed May 21, 2014 8:14 am

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:first of all, thanks
and...
done!!!!! :D


Glad to help! :D

NOTION 4 has remarkable depth with respect to its advanced capabilities . . .

It takes a while to make sense of all the various rules and procedures, which certainly is the case with some aspects of MIDI and ReWire, but (a) it is there and (b) it is accurate and reliable . . .

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:i didnt know that i have to click the "speaker icon" under 'mute' , 'solo' button in S1
(if i dont click it, it just play one track in a time)


I forget this every once in a while, including at least two times when I was making the most recent YouTube video tutorial, and it takes me a few minutes to "fix it" . . .

Having a "mental checklist" helps, so that when you expect to hear audio but are not hearing audio, you can use the checklist to ensure that the various inputs, outputs, and buttons are in the proper configuration and setting . . .

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:so far i feel good about this setup
now, Notion is like...um...integrated into S1
when im still composing and need to know how the sound is,
i simply click space-bar, and it do a playback(without recording)

when i need to edit velocity intensively, just record midi notes to DAW


NOTION 4 is integrated with Studio One 2.6.2 Producer/Professional and every other Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application that fully supports ReWire . . .

There are some very important rules, but once you do it a few times and develop a system, it is a nice composing environment . . .

As a general practice, I save everything frequently and start a new ReWire session every two or so hours, mostly to clear buffers and so forth . . .

In some instances, depending on which transport you are using for Rewind, Stop, and Play (NOTION 4 or Studio One 2.6.2), NOTION 4 might not get the command to start playing or to start recording, in which case I stop both NOTION 4 and Studio One 2.6.2, followed by manually positioning the NOTION 4 score at the desired starting measure; and then I do the same with Studio One 2.6.2, which usually gets the "Where are we? We're here!" thing happening, but if not, then I quit NOTION 4 and restart NOTION 4, which gets the synchronizing and coordinating stuff happening . . .

Image
NOTION 4 Transport

Image
Studio One Transport

ReWire is a bit sensitive to that stuff, and when I am composing in NOTION 4 in a ReWire session, I usually use the NOTION 4 transport for Rewind, Stop, and Play, since the work is being done in NOTION 4 rather than in the DAW application, but recording needs to be doing with the DAW application transport and its Record button . . .

There is a scenario where you might want to use both Record buttons (NOTION 4 and DAW application), which is when you are playing a real MIDI keyboard or MIDI guitar and want to use it to record MIDI to NOTION 4 and the DAW application simultaneously, which is a bit strange, but it can be done. I created a YouTube video tutorial for this last year (2013), since there were a lot of folks who were wondering whether it was possible to do this . . .

[NOTE: There are quite a few things like this, and as best as I can determine none of them are formally documented anywhere other than in various topics in this FORUM, but so what. Once you understand the rules for MIDI and ReWire, the only qualifying aspect is whether the applications follow the rules for MIDI and ReWire--which certainly is the case with NOTION 4, most DAW applications, and Reason 7--where so far the strangest thing I have verified is that a NOTION 4 External MIDI stave can play a Reason 7 synthesizer in a ReWire 2 session where Studio One 2.6 Producer is the ReWire 2 host controller and both NOTION 4 and Reason 7 are ReWire 2 slave applications, which incidentally works for most DAW applications including Ableton Live 9, Logic Pro X (Apple), and Digital Performer 8 (MOTU) . . . ]

S1 N4 R7 ReWire2 Real-time MIDI Record ~ YouTube video tutorial

Summarizing, when ReWire appears to be a bit confused, I exit NOTION 4 and the DAW application, followed by restarting the DAW application and then restarting NOTION 4, since this clears buffers and so forth . . .

Having a "system" is good, and knowing and understanding all the rules is good . . .

There is an excellent book that explains all the detailed work done when Beatles songs were recorded, and the thing that got my attention was the nearly military use of guidelines, procedures, rules, and so forth, which included a detailed guideline for "Pop vocalists" when they were singing, where the rules included (a) avoiding unnecessary dancing and body motions; (b) holding the head upright; (c) maintaining constant distance from the microphone, where the desired distance was specified; (d) location of two or more "Pop vocalists" when sharing a microphone relative to the type of microphone and the microphone pattern (cardioid or omnidirectional); (e) proper selection and setup of microphone stand; (f) scenarios in which a microphone "windscreen" is required; and so forth and so on . . .

At first, I thought it was simply bizarre, but after thinking about it for a while, the fact of the matter is that Beatles songs made millions of dollars (now billions of dollars), and it was a business; hence it made good business sense to ensure the highest quality in every respect, which was the purpose of the guidelines, procedures, and rules . . .

Recording the Beatles (Curvebender Publishing)

The same logic applies to using NOTION 4, Studio One 2.6.2, and ReWire . . .

I call it the "system" or "formula", and it is a good thing to have and to use . . .


SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:everything is good except i have to wait it patiently during the MIDI note-recording
anyway to speed it up?


Technically, since NOTION 4 is sending MIDI notes, you might try doing a few experiments where you increase the tempo temporarily to do the MIDI note-recording faster . . .

At least in theory, if the tempo is 90 bpm and you increase it to 180 bpm, then it should be twice as fast; and this might work nicely for purposes of recording MIDI notes sent from a NOTION 4 External MIDI staff to Studio One 2.6.2 . . .

It will not work so easily if you also are recording the audio generated by the instrument hosted in the DAW application (Kontakt 5, for example), but I think the MIDI information is independent of tempo, at least in some respects; and there are techniques and editing tools in the DAW application that make it possible to adjust the tempo of audio clips . . .

Lots of FUN! :ugeek:
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Re: Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

Postby SouLcRusaDer_kA » Fri May 23, 2014 5:10 am

tried increasing the tempo
the result is not that good, several notes stick together(ie. wrong note time-value)
may be it is because i dont have an audio-interface..?
can you get midi notes correctly recorded with a faster tempo ?
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Re: Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

Postby Surfwhammy » Fri May 23, 2014 7:43 am

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:tried increasing the tempo
the result is not that good, several notes stick together(ie. wrong note time-value)


My thinking in making the hypothesis is that it might work for playback of already-recorded MIDI, and I think it works if the tempo variation is smaller (for example, increasing it from 90 bpm to 100 bpm), but if not, then it was an interesting experiment . . .

I would not expect it to work for recording, although at the moment I am not certain why, other than it does not appear to be something that makes intuitive sense . . .

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:may be it is because i dont have an audio-interface..?


Having or not having an external digital audio and MIDI interface should make no difference. Where it does make a difference is when you have external MIDI devices that only have standard MIDI ports rather than USB style MIDI ports . . .

For example, the KORG Triton Music Workstation (88-Keys) here in the sound isolation studio only has standard MIDI ports, and I cannot connect it directly to the Mac Pro, but it connects to the MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid external audio and MIDI controller, which has standard MIDI In and MIDI Out ports. So I connect the KORG Triton to the MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid and the MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid digitizes that MIDI and talks to the Mac Pro . . .

But in contrast, the Behringer UMA25S mini-MIDI keyboard has both a USB MIDI port and a standard MIDI port, so I can connect it directly to the Mac Pro by using the USB MIDI port . . .

I also could chain the Behringer UMA25S to the KORG Triton, since the KORG Triton has a MIDI Thru port, but this needs to be done using a standard MIDI cable; and while there might be a reason to do this, none comes to mind at the moment . . .

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:can you get midi notes correctly recorded with a faster tempo ?


Probably not, at least in the sense of recording something at a faster tempo when it actually is intended for a slower tempo . . .

When working with an external MIDI device like a MIDI keyboard, the accuracy of MIDI recording in NOTION 4 is controlled by the various parameters and options available on the MIDI Recording Panel, and it takes a bit of experimenting with different settings to tailor it to the way you play . . .

[NOTE: This is the way I have it configured for the Behringer UMA25S mini-MIDI keyboard as the MIDI input device, and it is very accurate for rapid phrases, at least to 32nd note granularity at a peppy tempo, as demonstrated in the YouTube video tutorial in my previous post, where I played and recorded the lead guitar style phrases, which work nicely except for the part during the verse when I zoned-out and forgot the key and scale (noting that I edited the MIDI notes and fixed it a while later). Most of it works very nicely, but there was an awkward series of measures, which happens every so often. The key is to keep the good stuff and to edit the bad stuff to make it good. To avoid confusion, the YouTube video tutorial is provided below. The synthesizer in the intro up to "If you come" is hot, but then I zoned out, and the next few measures are embarrassingly bad, but it gets good again and stays good until the end of the song. The reason is that lead guitar is my primary instrument, so the lead guitar style stuff works nicely. If I had been playing the embarrassingly bad part on a lead guitar with a whammy bar I could have made it sound good in real-time on the fly, but that was not what happened, so I edited it later, where for the most part I determined the notes of the melody and tracked the melody, which works nicely . . . ]

S1 N4 R7 ReWire2 Real-time MIDI Record ~ YouTube video tutorial

Image

Lots of FUN!
:)
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Re: Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

Postby SouLcRusaDer_kA » Sat May 24, 2014 11:34 am

i dont know but i will review the issue of" recording MIDI notes from N4 to S1 in fast tempo"
after i get an audio interface(a few months later ~~)
i wont be able to do a lot on this matter without that

if this setup failed in recording MIDI notes rapidly
its pretty sad i would say

anyway, i get a new question lol
when N4 rewired to S1 and N4 using its bulit-in sound on a track
do you know if its possible to do automation(volume,pitch..sort of..) on that N4 track inside S1 ?

ps: god..this thread should be one of the sticky-threads...lol
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Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:14 am

Re: Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

Postby Surfwhammy » Sat May 24, 2014 3:04 pm

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:i dont know but i will review the issue of" recording MIDI notes from N4 to S1 in fast tempo"
after i get an audio interface(a few months later ~~)
i wont be able to do a lot on this matter without that

if this setup failed in recording MIDI notes rapidly
its pretty sad i would say


There might be a bit of confusion on this . . .

I was exploring the idea of recording at 180 bpm a series of MIDI notes intended for a 90 bpm tempo, and I am not certain how well that will work . . .

When the focus shifts to recording at 90 bpm a series of MIDI note intended for a 90 bpm tempo, I see no problem, which also is the case when recording at 180 bpm a series of MIDI notes intended for a 180 bpm tempo . . .

My concern is that recording at twice the tempo will make it a bit more difficult to do the starts and ends of individual notes as precisely as at a slower tempo, where intuitively I think that the margin of error is doubled when the tempo doubles in this scenario. At the doubled tempo, small variations are not so obvious, but when the tempo is halved, the "small variations" become larger . . .

To the best of my knowledge, once you have the various MIDI Recording parameters and options set correctly for your MIDI keyboard or MIDI guitar, you should be able to record MIDI accurately at typical tempos, which certainly includes Flamenco tempos for Bulerias . . .

Visual Buleria Rhythm Pattern ~ Ogg video

[NOTE: This song was done with NOTION 3, and it has a traditional Buleria rhythm pattern for the verse and chorus, but the interlude is a custom 36-beat Flamenco rhythm pattern that I call "Surrealería" . . . ]

"Maríta de la Luna y Pablito el Petardo (No Es Tanto Lo Que Es Como Lo Que No Es)" (The Surf Whammys) ~ Surrealería ~ YouTube music video

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:anyway, i get a new question lol
when N4 rewired to S1 and N4 using its bulit-in sound on a track
do you know if its possible to do automation(volume,pitch..sort of..) on that N4 track inside S1 ?


You can control the volume level and panning, but some types of modifications can be done only after the NOTION 4 audio has been recorded, where pitch correction using the Melodyne Editor (Celemony) is an example of processing that is done after the NOTION 4 audio has been recorded . . .

You can add VST effects to the Studio One 2.6.2 track, and they will apply to the incoming audio from NOTION 4, as shown in the following YouTube video tutorial . . .

[NOTE: Since you cannot record the NOTION 4 ReWire Object track, I created a Send bus and sent it to an Audio track, which can be recorded. However, the NOTION 4 ReWire Object track has an echo unit, which works as you can see and hear; and there is a limiter on the corresponding Audio track, which also works on the incoming NOTION 4 audio sent via ReWire 2. Studio One supports Automation, and you also can do Automation, but this is not shown in the YouTube video tutorial. There is no voice-over in the YouTube video tutorial, but so what. It is sufficient to demonstrate the general concepts . . . ]

S1 N4 Effects Record ReWire2

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:ps: god..this thread should be one of the sticky-threads...lol


Lots of FUN! :D
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Re: Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

Postby SouLcRusaDer_kA » Mon May 26, 2014 10:52 am

ok, i managed to do volume automation on 'N4's instrument' track
i guess i can put a temporary-end to this thread now
until i upgraded my gears ~~

thanks Surfwhammy
i guess its going to save me a lots of time

and im going to do a real-battle-test on it
by transcribing " Let it go from Forzen " on this setup
i will post it here & let u know how it is going 8-)
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Re: Lock-Track Feature Request & velocity adjustment

Postby Surfwhammy » Mon May 26, 2014 12:57 pm

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:ok, i managed to do volume automation on 'N4's instrument' track
i guess i can put a temporary-end to this thread now
until i upgraded my gears ~~

thanks Surfwhammy
i guess its going to save me a lots of time

and im going to do a real-battle-test on it
by transcribing " Let it go from Forzen " on this setup
i will post it here & let u know how it is going 8-)


Glad to help! :)

(1) Save your work frequently (NOTION 4 and Studio One). I do this every five minutes or more frequently if I make a big change in something (for example, adding new instruments to the score or copying and pasting a large set of measures). I also do a "Save As . . . " to make copies of the score as it progresses, which is what I do with everything . . .

[NOTE: There are no windows in the sound isolation studio, and it is very quiet, so there might be a thunderstorm but I do not hear it, and then the power goes out, which happens occasionally, more so in the spring and summer. Different things happen, but having backups makes it easier to avoid losing work . . . ]

(2) If ReWire starts getting a bit confused after a while, just exit everything and start a new ReWire 2 session. I usually do this on the Mac every two hours or so. It clears all the buffers and resets everything, which makes for smooth sailing . . .

Lots of FUN! :D
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