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Notation Enhancement

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Notation Enhancement

Postby ashkantbt » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:23 pm

By now it has been four years that I'm using Notion. I was patient during these years with the problems and thinking maybe time could solve numerous problems and bugs. I have even E-mailed these bugs and defects many times. Now I have to say, despite its great potential Notion has remained an amateur software for the professional composers who are searching for advance notation tools and realistic playback at the same time. And it is really disappointing that as a composer I have to convert my scores, which I've written in Notion, to Sibelius just because of lack of some small but vital options for editing the notation and the existence of the related bugs.
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby Rubens » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:25 pm

Hi ashkantb, could you develop a bit more giving specific examples about your expectations and needs? I ask this because we all have our hopes to come and also I am curious about yours.
Anyway it seems at least that we will have cross staff for piano, harp, marimba in the next update/upgrade...
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby elerouxx » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:01 pm

I am in the same place. I have to take my scores to Finale for further editing.

The worst part is, I have to do this for very little things: the lack of cross-staff notation for piano, the lack of courtesy signature changes at the end of systems, bad design between tuplet bracket and slurs, hard to manage system or page breaks in parts, or a too small fonts for time markings. Little steps if compared to the marathonic task of having created Notion and took it where it is now.

After so many years of slow development, I had to decide that Notion is just a composition tool and not a notation editor up to the level of, say, producing orchestral parts that are really professional. Print is beautiful, quality is top, but on the practical side I always get complaints from the players or conductor, and I don't want to be that kind of composer. So despite I have so many good things to say about Notion, I end up using Finale (Of which I have very little good things to say) and virtually recompose the whole thing just to add a couple of simple, stupid things that Notion won't do.
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby elerouxx » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:23 pm

...I have to add that I just read the news about a new version upcoming. I have great hopes in this new update!
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby Wolfgang » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:06 am

I'm looking forward to this new version too.
One thing I'm disappointed about is that cross-staff notation is coming to Notion 5, not 4. When I bought 4 I never thought this "simple" feature wouldn't be included. Also because the lack of a demo I couldn't know that.
Now I have to pay for a feature I really need and I assumed it would be in the current version already.

Because of that missing feature I couldn't really use the version I bought for like 95% of my works.
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby tubatimberinger » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:10 pm

I was once a VERY vocal critic of this (the engraving limitations in Notion). Once, I was actually asked, under pain of having my posts deleted, to not speak out so much. But from my point of view, at the time, they were advertising something that they did not even come close to delivering. To make it more frustrating, it seemed they didn't even realize how deficient it was for 'notation software'. As more professionals started using the software, these limitations started to become more and more visible though, and you can find many threads full of upset composers who really thought they were gonna replace Sibelius or Finale for only $99 or less.

I have been using Notion since version 1.5. You will notice, unlike the past versions, if you look at the 'features', The words "Professional Notation" are no longer listed. I was actually relieved they did that (and as a result, I don't gripe about it anymore much) because Notion is NOT engraving software. Yes, it uses notation, but if you want professional engraving, you will have to export. It's that simple.

However, one should take into account the origins of the software. It was initially designed (according to the literature and marketing at the time) to bridge the gap between sequencer and notation for COMPOSERS of primarily ORCHESTRAL music. It does a BRILLIANT job at this. And as far as playback, it's just phenomenal; not to mention it is without a doubt,THE best bang for the buck there is in music software scene. I use it everyday. I also use the other stuff. Know this, the day they really get the notation to be as robust as we want, that will be a dark day for the competition.

sincerely,

-tim
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby elerouxx » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:01 pm

Wolfgang wrote:I'm looking forward to this new version too.
One thing I'm disappointed about is that cross-staff notation is coming to Notion 5, not 4. When I bought 4 I never thought this "simple" feature wouldn't be included. Also because the lack of a demo I couldn't know that.
Now I have to pay for a feature I really need and I assumed it would be in the current version already.

Because of that missing feature I couldn't really use the version I bought for like 95% of my works.


I didn't know that about Notion Cross staff going to Notion 5 and not 4. That's very unfair.
I ran to buy my Notion 4 upgrade, but to tell the truth there's very little I used from it. I Never imagined that things like cross staff would skip a full version. I could have kept Notion 3 for that matter.

Notion 4 is 64-bits, but I have installed the 32-bit version. Got tired trying to get miroslav and other plugins working with it. I know there is a lot of awe about Notion being 64-bits but honestly it's not something I need, nor something I would sacrifice VST compatibility for (please don't mention JBridge again. It's one additional pain to take care of).

The rest, about the same as notion 3: no cross-staff, same placement of text items, same problems with tuplets, same management of parts, same rewire problems... Maybe the piano keyboard and drums/chords interface is about the only thing that shows up as being a new feature.

tubatimberinger wrote: However, one should take into account the origins of the software. It was initially designed (according to the literature and marketing at the time) to bridge the gap between sequencer and notation for COMPOSERS of primarily ORCHESTRAL music. It does a BRILLIANT job at this. And as far as playback, it's just phenomenal; not to mention it is without a doubt,THE best bang for the buck there is in music software scene. I use it everyday. I also use the other stuff. Know this, the day they really get the notation to be as robust as we want, that will be a dark day for the competition.


I agree, and I also defend and try to 'advertise' Notion as far as I can between my fellow music students. Because Notion has helped me a lot, specially when I started learning composing for real a couple years ago. It's a wonderful tool.

But even so, it's dissappointing to see it fall short for very little. I feel stupid sending all these feature requests for almost 5 years now. Of course I wouldn't expect the company to grant everybody's wishes, but at least cross-staff could have been there still in version 4.

I just know that I will read very carefully what is in next version, because I now know how things work. Most probably, If a feature isn't there when launched, it will never be.
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby Wolfgang » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:12 pm

elerouxx wrote:I didn't know that about Notion Cross staff going to Notion 5 and not 4. That's very unfair.
I ran to buy my Notion 4 upgrade, but to tell the truth there's very little I used from it. I Never imagined that things like cross staff would skip a full version. I could have kept Notion 3 for that matter.


That's what I'm talking about.
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby pcartwright » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:23 pm

It's been a while since I've contributed to the forum, but I feel the need to speak up here. I'm very disappointed in the lack of updates to Notion 4. I don't know what features will come when, but we've been told cross-staff beaming would be on its way since version 3. Additionally, there are a host of bugs reported that have not been addressed. I think it is very bad customer service to only address bug fixes with major releases and equally bad to string out certain key notation features across various upgrade paths.
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Re: Notation Enhancement

Postby tubatimberinger » Thu May 01, 2014 10:24 am

I think a lot has to do with being acquired by one of the 'big boys'. Whenever this happens (in any industry) there is gonna be a period of disarray. The better the acquiring company, the shorter the time it takes. I'm taking this into account. I'm disappointed, but not surprised. The story always ends one of two ways; really, really good or really really bad. Either N5 will be Amazeballs or it will be the beginning of the end. I'm actually thinking it will be Amazeballs. What they have going for them, is there still isn't anything that can replace Notion and what IT does.

-t
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