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Vienna Ensemble and Problems with Transposing Instruments

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:14 pm
by idiotSavant
OK, I am at my wit's end. I hope an admin or someone else can help.

I have a problem with transposing instruments (clarinets, horns, etc). I create a basic staff for the instrument (Clarinet Bb, for example). I set the transposition in the dialog box in basic staff settings for Bb, same octave higher.

If I were to use this staff to write notes to, everything would be fine, but I need to call a VE instrument. When I do, the Vienna Ensemble instrument seems to be adding yet another transposition to the transposition set by the staff, and everything is a mess.

Also, when viewing the score as transposed, the staff signature changes from the one set by the basic staff dialog box to the original signature of the entire piece. I've tried adding another key signature to transpose it back to the correct signature, but this doesn't seem to do anything but make matters worse.

What am I doing wrong? I've been struggling with this for a long time. :x :cry:

Re: Vienna Ensemble and Problems with Transposing Instrument

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:49 am
by thorrild
Hi Michael,

Unfortunately I am not a Vienna Ensemble owner, but I feel compelled to point out one item in your post — not that it will solve anything, but who knows...?

If you set up a Bb Clarinet staff, the transposition should be set to Bb > Same Octave > Lower. At least that's how it is with Notion's own Clarinet sample.


Re: Vienna Ensemble and Problems with Transposing Instrument

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:17 am
by Surfwhammy
idiotSavant wrote:I have a problem with transposing instruments . . .

I defer to thorrild's advice, since all I care to know about the B♭ Clarinet are two things, specifically (a) that one of them caused a very painful blister on my thumb in the fifth grade when I thought it would be a good idea to learn how to play that particular instrument and (b) that while technically it is a woodwind, the musicians who play it tend to be in the same group of like-minded thinkers as horn players, which in a practical way maps to them always wanting to play songs in keys that are awkward for electric guitar unless one knows Barre chords--which I do--since Barre chords are the only way to keep horn players from being completely and totally annoying, which is important because a lot of songs are better when there is a horn section . . .

Nevertheless, it is useful to remember that there are three relevant menu items on the NOTION 4 "View" menu:

(1) "Transposed"

(2) "Concert Tuning"

(3) "Concert Pitch"


[NOTE: I use the "Concert Tuning" option most of the time, because (a) I do everything in the key of C regardless of the actual key, since the key of C is the only one I can remember, and (b) I do everything on soprano treble clef, since it also is the only one I can remember, where the thing that makes this work is using the transpose feature in NOTION Score Setup, where for example I set bass to be played two octaves lower but put it on a soprano treble clef. In my system there are 12 notes and 8 or so octaves; and while horn players might imagine they are playing in B♭, insofar as I am aware they are playing in C, which works nicely because I tend to compose songs using the white keys starting with A, which is pretty much like C, except that it is easier to play along with real guitar; and all the white keys work nicely in an Aeolian way when I have a bit of FUN with a keyboard synthesizer . . . ]

"Dance Baby Dance" (The Surf Whammys) ~ Basic Rhythm Section 2014 ~ YouTube music video

Summarizing, the particular choice of one of the three (Transposed, Concert Tuning, or Concert Pitch) might be an important aspect of the desired solution . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

Re: Vienna Ensemble and Problems with Transposing Instrument

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:01 pm
by Migot

Any stave connected to a VE will not show the correct transposed key in the score !

This is my experience about that.

Hope this thing will be fixed some time...


Re: Vienna Ensemble and Problems with Transposing Instrument

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:13 pm
by idiotSavant
Thanks all for the input. After much experimentation and headache, I believe that Alain is correct. As annoying as it is, I have to just ignore the key signature after calling a VE instrument.