Attention:

Welcome to the old forum. While it is no longer updated, there is a wealth of information here that you may search and learn from.

To partake in the current forum discussion, please visit https://forums.presonus.com

Crescendo/Decrescendo with EWQLSO

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Crescendo/Decrescendo with EWQLSO

Postby ccmusicman » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:18 pm

Hello everyone!

I just got notion 3 in the mail today, and I excitedly installed it.

Of course, went through the usual issues, trying to figure out how it all works. Anyway, get it mostly up and running and decide to give it a try with my EW Gold Play.

Load up an 18 violin patch, enter a few notes, and try a crescendo.

Nothing.

Sound plays, just no crescendo. So I try a decrescendo. Still nothing.

Am I doing something wrong?

If not, I must say I'll be highly disappointed. I was frustrated as all get out with Finale for it's failure at this. And I'm not really good at working with a DAW. I compose the "good ol' fashioned way" and when I heard that Notion works extremely well with EWSO, I purchased immediately. I was under the assumption I just start it up and start writing. So for the cresc/decres to not work at all, it brings me right back to Finale (at least it worked, slightly).

Help?

Rob
ccmusicman
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:37 pm

Re: Crescendo/Decrescendo with EWQLSO

Postby Erufailon » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:37 pm

As I understand (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong), N3 uses cc11 as the hairpin value by default for ewqlso. This means it doesn't work with the dxf patches, so it doesn't use them (you can use them by x03 if I remember right, but it still won't use cc01, so you have to record the modwheel data by hand, see the end of my post). I managed to get this to work by editing the rules files for midi-outs, but it's quite a bit more complicated than using a DAW, so I don't think that's really an option for you.

But in case it is, you can create a rules folder in the folder where you keep your scores, and inside that a .prules file, which uses the xml-format, and in that you can define your own rules for the external midi instruments. You can work out the different arguments that are useable and the format they need to be in by studying the original EWQL rules file, which is in support/plugindata/ewql/rules, or something like that, it's also an XML file, that can be opened by any XML editor, or simply notepad. The things not there are: <midi-out id="A">, this is used instead of plugin-id, and it starts the section that defines the external midi interface labeled 'A', and it's closed by </midi-out>; <if midi-channel="2"/> this can be used to define a rule to be fired only when the specified midi-channel is used, this way you can set up your patches, so they all use different and specific rules; you can also study the expressionlist.tkp file in the lists folder, that enables you to define your own expressions usable by typing ' then the expression's name, and those can be used to trigger rules set in the rules file.
This way I managed to create a DXF expression, which made that note switch to the DXF articulation's midi channel, and I set it up to use cc01 as the hairpin controller.
And another advantage to using the external midis is that jbridge opens every instrument as a new instance, and that takes up by default 200-500MB of RAM even when empty. This way you can use a 64 bit host like cantabille, or just the standalone, and you have 4x16 channels, which should be enough for the KS patches and some SD and some pianos. Also this way you can make N3 use the articulations you would use for the marks you put into the score, but to be honest I only changed a few for myself, the defaults were good most of the time.

If you could make sense of what I just wrote, make the appropriate back-ups, and go ahead, it can be done. Notion 3 is pretty flexible, and works really well with EWQLSO, but not neccessary out of the box (at least not for what I needed, which is playback of the score with the articulations I wanted), and unfortunately it takes quite a bit of work and understanding to get it to work, but it is possible.
But remember, always make backups of anything you need to change, and do this only if you know what you are doing, noone, but you can take responsibility if something goes wrong!

And if you couldn't make sense of it, then just use it as it is, I still liked it, for me it was the most comfortable of all notation software I have tried yet, even before I figured out how to make my own rules, and in the future I hope they'll make rule editing easier. I think it would be enough to just write a small program that allows for a user-friendly, yet flexible way to edit the rules files, this wouldn't even mean any changes to the main software itself, so it should be easily done.
As I mentioned in the beginning, a simple way to achieve what you want is to use the expression x03 (by typing ' then x03) on the note that you want to use a DXF patch, then create a sequencer staff that uses the same instrument (look at tutorials on notionmusic.com and the manual), and record the mod-wheel data for that note. This should work, but only for the full patches, not the 'lite' ones.
Erufailon
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:32 pm

Re: Crescendo/Decrescendo with EWQLSO

Postby ccmusicman » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:06 pm

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll check it out.

Rob
ccmusicman
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:37 pm

Re: Crescendo/Decrescendo with EWQLSO

Postby astinov » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:43 pm

Hi ccmusicman,

Just a question - are you inserting the instrument from "VST Instruments" or from the EWQL Symphonic Orchestra pallete?

The difference is that it is the EWQL Symphony Orchestra presets that are pre-programmed, VST Instruments, would just give you a regular VST instance like in any other host.

Try using the presets, put some staccatos. You should hear them change patch etc. If not, something is not happening right.

Hope this helps

Lubo Astinov
astinov
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Crescendo/Decrescendo with EWQLSO

Postby shin » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:57 am

Hi there,

I'm new to Notion - downloaded the demo yesterday and I have the same problem.
I loaded the Full Orchestra Template for EWSO Platinum (Play via jbridge) and the crescendos and diminuedos aren't working :-/ Any ideas?

I already tried what Lubo said and the articulations are triggering the related patches...that is working. But no crescendos :cry:

My best,
Stephan
shin
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:31 am


Return to NOTION

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DeborahRenue, ohxofofeziduh and 19 guests