NOTION Music Forum

the playback just sounds like bend/slide are absent
bug ?

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:the playback just sounds like bend/slide are absent
bug ?

The full palette of fabulous guitar and bass articulations only work with the NOTION 4 guitars and basses, and for acoustic guitar and classical guitar you need Expansion Sound packs (acoustic guitar with fingers, and classical guitar in general). Standard acoustic guitar, electric guitar, electric bass, and acoustic bass are included in the NOTION 4 bundled or native sounds, of course . . .

To be clear, I am referring to string bends, vibrato, whammying (a personal favorite), and all the other similar articulations or whatever they are called . . .

However, what one might call "standard" articulations and dynamics typically work on all instruments--things like staccato and the various dynamic levels like pianissimo, forte, and so forth . . .

The primary reason for the fabulous (or, "advanced" if you prefer) articulations working only with the NOTION virtual instruments is that it requires additional and quite extensive sampling, as well as intimate interacting with NOTION 4, which tends to make it something that is not easily done in a general way with VSTi virtual guitars and basses . . .

As an example, consider the MachFIve 3 (MOTU) "Telematic" electric guitar, which is heavily sampled (approximately 9,500 keygroups . . .

The "Telematic" is a heavily sampled and articulated electric guitar, and in some respects it has a detailed set of specific playing styles, automated chord styles, and so forth, but it does not do whammying, and for the most part using it requires scripting, which is one of the features of the "Telematic" and a few of the other MachFive 3 virtual instruments, where these are done by the UVI folks, which is excellent, but it does not do all the fabulous stuff that the NOTION 4 guitars do . . .

If your primary interest is fabulous lead guitar in one of the more modern genres, then the key is to use the NOTION 4 electric guitar and to enhance it with AmpliTube CS (IK Multimedia), where for reference AmpliTube CS supports both 32-bit and 64-bit modes, but one at a time, of course . . .

[NOTE: This is the FREE version of AmpliTube, which is the engine, custom shop, and a nice set of guitar rigs. I use AmpliTube 3 and the various collections, but AmpliTube CS FREE is full-featured and is an excellent way to get started. Some of the guitar rigs (amplifiers, effects, and so forth) are available only as individual purchases via the custom shop, but it costs less to get collections unless you need a very specific type of guitar rig. For reference, IK Multimedia specializes in doing very accurate emulations of real guitar rigs, which they measure using sophisticated measuring equipment to determine the electromagnetic, optical, and acoustic behavior and characteristics, which then become data and parameters to their proprietary digital emulation software. And every time IK Multimedia needs to build a new factory or whatever, they have absurd discount extravaganza sales where stuff is heavily discounted, plus you get FREE stuff as a bonus based how many customers participate, so the best strategy is to get on their mailing list and to check the website every so often to determine when they temporarily lose their minds . . . ]

AmpliTube CS FREE (IK Multimedia)

These are two examples of a few things one can do with the NOTION 4 electric guitar and the fabulous articulations provided via the NOTION 4 grand staff (treble cleff and guitar tab), which is fabulous . . .

[NOTE: In this example, which was done with NOTION 3, the rhythm guitar is the NOTION 3 electric guitar, while the tremolo guitar is from MachFive 3, and there is a "Telematic" electric guitar from MachFive 3, as well; and the lead guitar is from SampleTank (IK Multimedia). Everything is done with music notation in Notion 3, and the NOTION 3 generated audio is recorded in Digital Performer 7 (MOTU) where it is enhanced with additional effects plug-ins . . . ]

"I Want To Dance With You" (The Surf Whammys) -- CueMix FX Analysis of the Basic Rhythm Section -- YouTube music video

[NOTE: In this example, the lead guitar is the Notion 4 electric guitar, which is enhanced with AmpliTube CS, and the goals were (a) to demonstrate some of the virtually insane things one can do with the fabulous articulations, (b) to have a bit of FUN with quarter tone scales, and (c) to create a song which is somewhat reminiscent of Irish "riverdance" songs played by a hyperactive musical group with a lead guitar player who thinks he is playing a surreal combination of bagpipes, violin, and accordion. (Can you ever get too much Lawrence Welk on LSD?) . . . ]

"Abyss" (The Surf Whammys ft. Pretend Daniel Erlandsson on Addictive Drums [XLN Audio] MIDI drums) -- YouTube music video

Fabulous!

Thanks for reply Surfwhammy

for me it is Unbelievable that articulations only work for native sounds !
i have to say Sibelius can do it !!
as if VSTi is the native sound

Sibelius can do it
therefore i see no reason why Notion is unable to do so

true, i might get the job done in a "similar way" if i use native guitar sounds
but some tones are really very difficult to tune, if not impossible

to be fair, some tones can easily be tuned when using VSTi
and the same tone could be very time-consuming to get it tuned using
native sound+AmpliTube
and the time is consumed pretty Meaningless in this way

seriously, i hope Notion team can fix it in next update
these articulations are so indispensable !
and is it possible to be done by making a rule for VSTi ?

Which VSTi are you using?

Some VSTi's don't have samples for Slides and Bends.

Regards,

Admin

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:Thanks for reply Surfwhammy

for me it is Unbelievable that articulations only work for native sounds !
i have to say Sibelius can do it !!
as if VSTi is the native sound

Glad to help, but are we talking about the same things?

I have the current version of Sibelius (7.1.3), and I experimented with it for a while with the result that it is painful to use and is nothing like the way NOTION 4 does guitar tabs . . .

This is the set of guitar articulations for Sibelius, and I had no success getting any of it to work:


Sibelius 7.1.3 Guitar Articulations

In contrast, this is the set of guitar articulations for the NOTION 4 native guitars, and it is very easy to use:



THOUGHTS

In the real world, my primary instruments are lead guitar, rhythm guitar, and electric bass guitar, with drums and keyboards being secondary in some respects, although it depends on the genre . . .

I have a highly customized Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster that has two separate and independent output channels, and I run each output channel through a separate set of effects pedals, which makes it possible to create what I call a "Wall of Lead Guitar", which is nice, because it sounds like a bunch of lead guitars but actually is just one lead guitar, which maps to being able to play the lead guitar part for real . . .


The Fabulous Fifty Million Dollar Trinaural Stratocaster ~ featuring the Really Big Knob

[NOTE: This instrumental song was recorded in 2008 using real instruments, which was two years before I discovered NOTION and decided to do most of the instrumentation with music notation and virtual instruments, although I continue to do real lead guitar and occasionally real rhythm guitar, electric bass, and a bit of keyboard, depending on the genre, since some things are easier to play on real instruments than to do with music notation and virtual instruments, and there is no way I could do all the lead guitar stuff on this song with music notation and virtual guitars. For the real external effects pedal rigs I use the "set it and forget it rule" for everything except the two DigiTech Whammy pedals, Dunlop Cry Baby and Budda Budwah pedals, which are the motion pedals I use . . . ]

Starlight (The Surf Whammys) -- T-RackS (IK Multimedia) Remaster -- YouTube music video

For reference, the reason I have Sibelius is two-fold:

(1) I got a bit annoyed a year or so ago by reading posts that suggested Sibelius was fantastic . . .

(2) Avid had a very attractive cross-grade discount extravaganza . . .

On the good side, for those folks who have advanced engraving needs, I think that Sibelius can do just about everything associated with engraving, but the bad side is that it is useless otherwise, and the graphic user interface is a chaotic mess . . .

In contrast, doing lead guitar and rhythm guitar tabs in NOTION 4 is easy and intuitive, and for the genres I like it is easy to use the NOTION 4 native electric guitar; and the reason is that by the time you run an electric guitar through a sophisticated effects pedal rig, amplifiers, and loudspeaker cabinets (real or virtual), the electric guitar essentially becomes a binary device, and the only important thing is that the output channel signal is strong, which is one of the reasons The Fabulous Fifty Million Dollar Trinaural Stratocaster has all bridge-output Seymour Duncan pickups, which apparently is a bit non-standard, because after placing the order I received an email from the customer service folks who wanted to be certain that I really intended to order bridge-output for all the pickups, which I thought was very diligent on their part, and I confirmed that I wanted bridge-output for all the pickups . . .

Of course, my general perspective on music is that there are no absolutes in terms of good, bad, or indifferent, and whatever works best for each person is fine with me . . .

My focus in the guitar universe is electric guitar (lead guitar and rhythm guitar), and I do not play acoustic guitar, classical guitar, or Flamenco guitar, so it might be different for those types and styles of guitars, which also is fine with me . . .

Nevertheless, my experience is that I can do a virtual festival of electric guitar with music notation and guitar tabs in NOTION 4 using the NOTION 4 native electric guitar for the elaborate articulations and then combine it with additional virtual guitars from Kontakt 5 (Native Instruments) and MachFive 3 (MOTU) to do nearly everything I desire, although for some things it is easier to play it on a real electric guitar than it is to attempt doing it with music notation and guitar tab articulations, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!

to Admin
Kontakt 3
Proteus VX

also, are you saying some VSTi can function well with these fretted-instrument techniques?
i will be happy if its true

and an out-topic question:
is it possible to see a more flexible 'add bar-line' function in future?
for example: press 'Alt+I ' for adding bar-line to an Individual track only
no effect on other tracks
thanks

to Surfwhammy
Oops, i remember i got Kontakt/Hypersonic slide worked in Sibelius6 a few months ago
but true, not every VSTi worked

havent tried version7
but at least we are in agreement about it
i really dont want to use Sibelius anymore in future if it keeps going on this way
no insert mode, difficult to change note-duration later, primitive guitar-tab system etc
just cause me pains

Ok, right now my situation is:
i need warm classical guitar sound and capable to do slide, hammer etc
for a project

so the native acoustic guitar sound is too sharp in this case
not $ for Notion sound expansion right now
any fast solution for it?

btw, nice strat
it would look cooler if it is a maple fretboard

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:i need warm classical guitar sound and capable to do slide, hammer etc
for a project

All the NOTION Expansion Sounds are discounted 50 percent through December 2, 2013, so this is an excellent time to get the Classical Guitar instrument . . .

[Classical Guitar] Techniques: Rest Strokes, Free Strokes, Standard Right-Hand Positon, Sul Ponticello (at the bridge) Sul Tasto (over the fingerboard), Hammer-on’s, Pull-off’s, Trills, Vibrato, Molto Vibrato, Harmonics, Golpe, Crossed-Stringed technique, all at numerous dynamic levels.
(959.4 MB download)

[SOURCE: NOTION Expansion Sounds (Notion Music) ]

As an example, this song was done by Notion Music FORUM member JohnF with the NOTION Expansion Sounds "Classical Guitar" instrument, and it is remarkably realistic in every respect, which is fabulous . . .

"Adela" (JohnF) -- YouTube music video

Fabulous!

P. S. I did a few more experiments with the guitar tab articulations, and for some stringed instruments, if you extend the span of the "let it ring" articulation, this maps to doing a slide, which is different from glissando and portamento, which cause the intermediate notes at each fret to be played, most of the time . . .

The ways VSTi virtual instruments interpret the various articulations will vary, and the MachFive 3 "Telematic" electric guitar did not do any of the bends, vibrato, and whammy articulations, but for glissandi instead of playing the intermediate fretted half-steps, it did a surf style "Pipeline" glissandi some of the time, complete with reverb, which was a bit unexpected, and I think it was the combination of "let it ring", glissandi, and larger intervals that did it . . .

50% off is impressive!
will it happen again next year?
helpfully can get Notion5 at a decent price haha

i looped several time
and yea, JohnF's piece is amazingly realistic


sorry what do you mean by 'extend the span of let ring' ?
its a bit hard to understand
English is not my first language anyway

i once thought using gliss./ port. to make it sounds like slide
but turned out its not the case
just as you said: 'cause the intermediate notes at each fret to be played'
i even edited in sequencer overlay mode, changed the note-duration,
and found it totally has no effect on the sound(when gliss./ port. is present)
right now is a bit frustrated

hard to imagine 'surf style "Pipeline" glissandi '
is that sound like a ordinary slide?

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:what do you mean by 'extend the span of let ring' ?

You can extend "let ring" to the right so it lasts longer (more beats), and the notes underneath the "- - - - - - - |" will slide from one to the next, but not the first note, so it starts at the second note, except when there also is glissando or portamento. The slide happens when the notes are plain with no other articulations . . .

SouLcRusaDer_kA wrote:. . . hard to imagine 'surf style "Pipeline" glissandi '
is that sound like a ordinary slide?

"Pipeline" (The Chantays) is a classic Instrumental Surf genre song from the 1960s, and the intro for the song is where the electric guitar with reverb glissando happens . . .

"Pipeline" (The Chantays) -- YouTube music video

The Fender reverb unit is a metal spring unit floating on springs, so if you bang it, it makes a unique 'crashing" sound and is a standard part of Instrumental Surf genre electric guitar, as are Fender tremolo and Wurlitzer electric piano . . .

For a while, I was thinking about having an Instrumental Surf musical group, hence the moniker "Surfwhammy" and the highly-customized Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster with Fender two-point synchronized tremolo (a.k.a., "whammy bar") and the Really Big Knob, but after thinking about it a while, I decided to focus on writing DISCO and Pop songs about ladies underpants instead, since there is considerably less competition in that genre, which is fabulous . . .

[NOTE: This was done in 2006 when I was doing everything with real instruments . . . ]




The Really Bigger Drumkit

"Nuke Out" (The Surf Whammys) -- MP3

Fabulous!

oh the 'let ring trick' doesnt work for me
they are just ordinary let ring

its rare to see a guitar guy writing Disco song in my reality
which is one of my unfavorite genre
along side with rap hip-hop
but wait...ladies underpants !?

whats that under the hi-hat ?
wind-chimes ?