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Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

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Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Francois2010 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:23 am

Hello!

When asked a female choir Miroslav it generates two staves. A musical staff is key F. (See picture)

1. I do not understand what this musical stave (F key) is present when we needed a choir soprano ... It is not absolutely necessary.

2. Notion3 "considers" both as musical stave stave ONLY ONE.
So you can not use Tools> Hide Resting Staves.

This is very cumbersome.

Do you have a solution to this problem?
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Surfwhammy » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:55 pm

This is one way to explain what happens with the Miroslav Philharmonik Female Choir, and after doing some experiments, I think it is accurate . . .

The range for Miroslav Philharmonik Female Choir ("F.Choir") is G3 to C6 in scientific pitch notation, and the "split-point" in NOTION 3 generally is considered to be Middle C, which is C4 in scientific pitch notation. Hence, the apparent logic is that the notes below Middle C need to be on the bass staff rather than on a treble staff . . .

[NOTE: Miroslav Philharmonik uses C3 for Middle C, which is consistent with the MIDI definition that allows C3, C4, or C5 to be used as Middle C. Nevertheless, C4 is standard Middle C in scientific pitch notation . . . ]

It does not work to change the Grand Staff to Standard Notation, so you need to leave it as a Grand Staff . . .

If you check with wikipedia, you will find that it lists the lowest female voice range as being Contralto but has a note that this soprano voice is rare, hence this range typically is sung by Mezzo-sopranos, where the range of a Mezzo-soprano goes from G3 to C6 . . .

Female Voices (wikipedia)

A Lyric Coloratura Soprano has a range of C4 to F6, but the high-end of this range is not included in the Miroslav Philharmonik Female Choir . . .

From this one can surmise that the range of the Miroslav Philharmonik Female Choir is Mezzo-soprano, although a few of the articulations extend the range downward by a whole step to F3 . . .

SOLUTION

Instead of using the predefined Miroslav Philharmonik template for the Female Choir, select "VST Instruments" in score setup and then select "Miroslav Philharmonik". This creates a new Standard Notation Staff and when the Miroslav Philharmonik standalone user interface appears, select one of the non-glissandi Female Choir articulations. You can experiment with the different articulations, of course . . .

Image
VST Instrument ~ Miroslav Philharmonik ~ Female Choir

The problem with this solution is that you lose the predefined mapping, but by using a multiple channel track and switching "instruments", where each voice is a different "instrument", hence is assigned a different articulation, you can create your own custom mapping and control it by switching "instruments", where in this context "instrument" maps to one of the 16 channels for the Miroslav Philharmonik instance . . .

This technique allows you to have 16 channels for the one instance of Miroslav Philharmonik, where you can assign a different Female Choir articulation to each channel. It is explained on pages 9-10 and 9-11 of the NOTION 3 User Guide . . .

And while this might appear to be a bit complex, it is easy to do once you see how it works, and it might provide more detailed control than the NOTION 3 predefined mapping for the Miroslav Philharmonik Female Choir . . .

Using a multiple channel track is a very useful technique, and the following screen captures shows how it looks when the channel is changed from the default (channel 1) to subsequent channels through channel 5 . . .

[NOTE: In this terminology "track" maps to a "staff" in NOTION 3, and "instrument" maps to a "channel" or "part" in Miroslav Philharmonik. Hence the VSTi virtual instrument track or staff has 16 channels or instruments, and you can switch from one channel or instrument to another via the "Switch Instrument" command, which you add to the music notation . . . ]

Image
NOTION 3 ~ Miroslav Philharmonik ~ Female Choir ~ Multiple Channel Track

Each time the channel changes, which is indicated in the screen capture (see above) by "MP (n)", this changes the part or channel to the integer number as shown in the following screen capture of the Miroslav Philharonik standalone user interface, which is fabulous . . .

Image

You can hide the channel change notation by selecting each one; right-clicking; and then selecting "Hide" from the "Attachments" menu that appears as a fly-out, which is fabulous . . .

Image
NOTION 3 ~ Multiple Channel Staff ~ Instrument Change Notation Selected in Orange ~ Hide Menu Item

Fabulous! :)
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Francois2010 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:23 am

Good! Thank you again!
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Surfwhammy » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:07 am

Francois2010 wrote:Good! Thank you again!


Glad to help! :)

THOUGHTS

With the caveat that at present all the IK Multimedia virtual instruments are 32-bit only, Miroslav Philharmonik is surprisingly deep and rich once you understand how the SampleTank engine works and what you can do with it, where you will note that you can tailor specific articulations in the standalone user interface for Miroslav Philharmonik by adjusting the parameters on the right side of the "parts" and "channels" section, as shown in the following screen capture, where among other things you can change polyphony, panning, volume, and output channels . . .

[NOTE: On the Mac the way you change the parameters is to move the mouse pointer to the parameter and then click and hold down the left mouse button followed by moving the mouse upward or downward, which causes the numerical value to change. It probably works the same way on a Windows computer, but I cannot verify it, since I do everything on the Mac . . . ]

Image

There are even more parameters and controls in the advanced section, as shown in the following screen capture, where you can do fine-tuning and apply a virtual festival of effects, and one can devote a week or more to making sense of all the stuff you can do in the advanced section, where the key is to save your changes as a user-defined preset or "COMBI", which you can recall at a later time, noting that the various controls and parameters of the advanced section apply specifically to each "part" or "channel" on a per instrument basis, where changes you make to the first part apply only to the first part, and so forth and so on . . .

[NOTE: To see the full image, you can click on right-click on the image and select "View Image" if are using the Firefox web browser. And there are similar commands for other web browsers . . . ]

Image

As an example, consider that you have three trumpets where one is at the far-left front of the stage; one is at the front center of the stage; and the third trumpet is at the far-right front of the stage. You want to switch from one to another and hear them at their specific locations. You can do this by having three "parts" or "channels" for the exact same solo trumpet instrument articulation but for each one you change its panning location, respectively. Then in the music notation you can use "Switch Instrument" to select which of the three otherwise identical solo trumpets you want to play and since each one has a different panning location, this is handled automatically by Miroslav Philharmonik without requiring you to do anything specific with the NOTION 3 Mixer panning control for the instance of Miroslav Philharmonik. Whether this makes sense for a solo trumpet is another matter, but it could make sense for voices in an opera where the singers move to different locations on the stage . . .

[NOTE: Based on the specific musical genres for which I compose (DISCO and Pop), I like to have a bit of FUN with panning . . . :P ]

You can specify different instruments as well as voice articulations and can switch between them as the song moves from one section or phrase to another, which can be very useful when you have a set of instruments that never need to play simultaneously, where as an example there might be solos for a piccolo trumpet, baritone saxophone, and oboe but only one needs to play at any give time, so you can put these three instruments in the single instance of Miroslav Philharmonic as "parts" or "channels" and then switch among them as needed by doing a "Switch Instrument" command in the music notation. And you can do this with as many as 16 different instruments, voices, or articulations, where for example you might need five articulations for the piccolo trumpet solo; five articulations for the baritone saxophone solo; and six articulations for the oboe solo. The switching can be done on an individual note basis, but overall it is better to do it at a higher granularity (measures or sets of notes rather than on each individual note), since there is some overhead involved in switching "parts" or "channels" . . .

You can watch what happens by switching to the NOTION 3 Mixer and clicking on the name of one of the Miroslav Philharmonik instruments, which launches the Miroslav Philharmonik standalone user interface. Play the song and then watch as the "parts" and "channels" change in response to various articulations specified in the music notation for the instrument. You also will see the notes "played" on the mini-keyboard, which is interesting to watch . . .

Another useful bit of information is that you get the best and most realistic sound for a Miroslav Philharmonik instrument when you specify the matching sound sample played by the musician in the actual articulation you specify in your music notation, since this ensures that the sound sample is real rather than emulated by some type of algorithm . . .

This is a bit complex to explain, but if the articulation is staccato and there is a staccato articulation available for the instrument in Miroslav Philharmonik, it will sound best if you specify the staccato sound sample. The NOTION 3 presets and mapping for Miroslav Philharmonik do this in a practical way, but in some instances you might want to specify an articulation that is available in the sound samples for the instrument but is not mapped in the NOTION 3 presets and mapping for the particular instrument. In this case, you can create your own "COMBI" with the specific articulations you desire and use the "Switch Instrument" technique with an instance of Miroslav Philharmonik done via "VST Instruments" in NOTION 3 score setup, which you also can do in NOTION 4, with the caveat that at present all the IK Multimedia virtual instruments are 32-bit only . . .

This technique works for Kontakt 5 (Native instruments), MachFive 3 (MOTU), and so forth and so on, where the primary requirement is that the engines for the various VSTi virtual instruments support "parts" or "channels", as well as switching among the various "parts" or "channels" via the "Switch Instrument" notation in NOTION, which basically sends a specific MIDI command to the VSTi virtual instrument engine telling which "part" or "channel" to use . . .

The general rule here in the sound isolation studio is that sample sounds for instruments and voices are the most realistic when you select the specific sampled sound where the musician or singer actually is performing the particular articulation, which makes excellent sense if you think about it for a while . . .

If you want the most realistic legato, then select the specific articulation where the musician or singer is performing legato, and if there are different types of legato, then select the sampled sound that best matches the type of legato you desire. This way a real musician or singer was recorded playing or singing in the specific articulation you want to use, and this will be the most realistic sound . . .

Continuing with the legato example, there are ways to emulate legato when it is not available as a specific real sound sample, and some of the emulation algorithms can be very realistic, but there are differences among (a) computed articulations using mathematical and geometrical algorithms and (b) articulations played or sung by real people and then recorded, digitized, and made available as specific sound samples . . .

Lots of FUN! :ugeek:

P. S. If you need any help with this, let me know . . . :)
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Francois2010 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:49 pm

Hi,
I would have liked to succeed is to change the vocal effects choirs on a single staff. EX: 1,2 3 and 4 ==> staccato ... measure 5 6 and 7 ==> AH voice, all on the same stave.
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Surfwhammy » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:10 am

Francois2010 wrote:Hi,
I would have liked to succeed is to change the vocal effects choirs on a single staff. EX: 1,2 3 and 4 ==> staccato ... measure 5 6 and 7 ==> AH voice, all on the same stave.


You can do this the way I described . . .


In the following NOTION 3 score, the first four measures are "FEMALE AH STCH", which is the 1st part and channel 1, and is indicated by "MP (1)". Then at the start of the fifth measure the voices change to "FEMALE AH AMV", which is the 2nd part and channel 2 . . .

[NOTE: I added only five "parts" or "channels" to the MP instance, but you can add up to 16 . . . ]

NOTION 3 ~ Miroslav Philharmonik ~ Female Choir - Articulation Change -- NOTION 3 Score (*.notion)

If this is different from what you want to do, let me know . . .

Lots of FUN!
:)
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Francois2010 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:39 pm

I explore what you've written here and I'll make comment probably next week: hard work for me ...! :geek:
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Surfwhammy » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:14 pm

Francois2010 wrote:I explore what you've written here and I'll make comment probably next week: hard work for me ...! :geek:


Earlier this week, I made a YouTube video that shows how to do this, except that it uses various brass instruments and a Viola, which is fabulous . . .

[NOTE: The YouTube video is available in 720p HD, so if you have a fast web connection you can watch it in high resolution. There is no voice-over, but it should be easy to see the various steps. The only difference is that instead of using instruments, you will use various articulations for Soprano Choir . . . ]

NOTION 4 32-bit Miroslav Philharmonik Multi-Channels -- YouTube video

Fabulous! :)

P. S. Let me know if you need more help with this . . .
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Francois2010 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:00 pm

First thank you for the work you do in order to help! It's very appreciated.

There are differences here that do not seem to allow the same results as you.

Hypothesis 1: I work with N3.
Hypothesis 2: I'm on a PC.

According to the video I understand that you can open the required window to change channels it with one click. (see picture).

To do this, I understand that you click an area of ​​the partition where there is nothing.

Here none of this happens.

I tried unsuccessfully to find a command that could be equivalent on my PC.
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Re: Miroslav, Female choir and musical staves.

Postby Surfwhammy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:54 am

Francois2010 wrote:I tried unsuccessfully to find a command that could be equivalent on my PC.


(1) Click on the staff for which you have Miroslav Philharmonik assigned. You want the cursor to turn yellow . . .

Image

(2) Press the SHIFT key; hold it; and press the "i" key, where "i" is the alphabet character between "h" and "j". This causes the Change Instrument dialog to appear . . .

[NOTE: This was not shown in the YouTube video, because it is done on the keyboard . . . ]

Image Image

Code: Select all
English:  SHIFT + i
French:  Maj + i

NOTE:  The "+" key is not part of the combination shortcut.  It is just "SHIFT" and "i" . . .


(3) Select the channel you want from the drop-down listbox . . .

Image

(4) Click the "OK" button to accept the channel change and to close the Change Instrument dialog . . .

(5) The mouse cursor will be the name of the staff and the channel number, like "Miroslav Philharmonik (n)", where "n" is the channel number you selected . . .

(6) Click the mouse pointer on the beat in the measure where you want the new channel to be used . . .

THOUGHTS

The key is the SHIFT+i combination shortcut, and it is the same on the Mac and Windows. . .

Let me know if you need more help with this . . .

Lots of FUN! :)
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