NOTION Music Forum

I want to by Desktop notion, i understand the samples cost 40 times more than the ipad's...I use the ipad version and it cost basically nothing $30 for the software and ALL sample upgrades.
i am happy with the samples, its gives me enough of an idea of how my piece would sound with a real orchestra! One of the best things about the samples are that they have small footprint on memory and articulations all programmed for you.

So unless i'm missing the point here, why should i spend £££$$$$ on best 3rd party sounding samples?
I do own cubase and kontakt plus several libraries, but that's for occasions when a job requires realistic performed music to be broadcasted.

Is it just 'if you got the money' buy the best or the notion samples for the desktop are unrecognizable to ppls ears?

I deliberately want to go back to a notating software where i dont have to read manuals on getting 3rd party software to speak to each other...Now i just want to write and get on with it. Getting old and no time to waste.
Nice and simple.

Anyone here care to chime in on their opinions.?

Thanks for reading.
Pin

Yeah, I use them on my tabletPC, except the Guitar, because for distorted stuff it can't even give an estimate how it would sound on a real guitar, but the rest are fine and most sample libraries wouldn't run well on that anyway.

However if I really want it to sound like something you'd listen to, I have to use 3rd party stuff, so on the desktop, 3rd party samples, synths and real guitar, but on the go Notion's samples are alright.

Jaws75 wrote: . . . why should i spend £££$$$$ on best 3rd party sounding samples?

I do own cubase and kontakt plus several libraries, but that's for occasions when a job requires realistic performed music to be broadcasted.

Is it just 'if you got the money' buy the best or the notion samples for the desktop are unrecognizable to ppls ears?

I deliberately want to go back to a notating software where i dont have to read manuals on getting 3rd party software to speak to each other...Now i just want to write and get on with it. Getting old and no time to waste.

Nice and simple.

The NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments are very nice, and I use them, but I also use third-party VSTi virtual instruments. You get a full orchestra with NOTION 4, but you can expand it with the NOTION 4 Expansion Sounds if you need to add more articulations or more instruments, where for example there is a Percussion bundle that adds more Percussion instruments, but the Percussion instruments included in the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments are very nice and generally sufficient, unless for example you need Bongo Drums and some additional Latin Percussion instruments . . .

There are several ways to answer the question about the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments and Expansion Sounds, but it helps to understand some of the history of NOTION . . .

A BIT OF NOTION HISTORY

Real-time accompaniment is one of the primary uses of NOTION, and when NOTION was 32-bit only the resources required for a full virtual orchestra were significant to the level that it was not so practical when one used VSTi virtual instruments, and based on this my hypothesis is that this is the primary reason for NOTION to have bundled instruments and expansion sounds, since this makes it both possible and practical to have a full virtual orchestra for real-time accompanying and performing purposes . . .

[NOTE: As a example, I was enjoying a cocktail (actually a Coca-Cola, since as a rule I do not drink alcoholic beverages) with some friends at their country club and I was quite impressed with the local jazz band that was playing, but we were sitting in a corner and I could not see the jazz band, so I walked over to take a look and much to my surprise the "jazz band" was a fellow playing a real saxophone and accompanied by a MacBook Pro running NOTION 4 connected to an external digital audio and MIDI interface and a sound system, where the latter provided all the other instruments. I knew that people use NOTION 4 to augment musical groups and choirs, but it had not occurred to me that NOTION 4 can be used to create a virtual "one man band", which now has me pondering the idea of doing something similar, although my primary instruments are electric guitar and electric bass with a bit of keyboards as a secondary instrument . . . ]

There are other reasons, of course, and one of them is that the NOTION Bundled Instruments and Expansion Sounds specifically support a full-range of articulations, which is not so often the case with VSTi virtual instruments . . .

However, with the release of the 64-bit version of NOTION late last year (2012), quite a few things changed for those folks who have desktop computers (Mac or Windows) with sufficiently fast processors and at least 8GB of memory, although 16GB of memory is best . . .

Specifically, in this computing scenario where everything is 64-bits and the desktop computer is sufficiently powerful in terms of processing speed and memory availability, it becomes both possible and practical to use VSTi virtual instruments like Kontakt 5 (Native Instruments) in conjunction with the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments, and if desired some or all of the NOTION 4 Expansion Sounds . . .

For reference, I do everything on the Mac here in the sound isolation studio, and I use a combination of the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments, Kontakt 5, MachFive 3 (MOTU), Addictive Drums and Addictive Keys (XLN Audio), Twin 2 (FabFilter Software Instruments), and Cyclop (Sugar Bytes). I have all the IK Multimedia virtual instruments, but at present they are 32-bit only, so even though I like them, I do not use them most of the time, although if necessary for a specific instrument and sound I can switch to 32-bit mode and use the IK Multimedia virtual instruments . . .

I do not have any of the NOTION 4 Expansion Sounds, and I am not using NOTION 4 for real-time accompanying and performing, but if I needed to use NOTION 4 in this way, I probably would consider getting some of the Expansion Sounds, since even though the 64-bit universe makes the additional resources required to use VSTi virtual instruments less of a concern, there are concerns anytime the overall blend of software increases in complexity . . .

THOUGHTS

Since you have Kontakt, you should have ready access to a complete set of orchestral samples as well as a nice set of synthesizers, depending on the version of Kontakt, where if you are running Kontakt 5, then you have (a) the Kontakt Factory Library and (b) the Retro Machines MK2 Library . . .

Kontakt 5 Library (Native Instruments)

If your version of Cubase has VSTi virtual instruments, then you also have access to those instruments, where Cubase 7 (the current version) has a vast library of VSTi virtual instruments and VST effects plug-ins . . .

Cubase 7 (Steinberg)

If you are interested in guitar and bass, then it is important to understand (a) that the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments include Acoustic Guitar, Electric Guitar, Electric bass, and Upright Bass and (b) that these NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments are designed specifically to work with the NOTION 4 combined music notation and guitar tab double staves, which includes special guitar tab notation and articulations. There also are NOTION 4 Expansion Sounds that are designed to work with the combined music notation and guitar tab dual staves, which includes adding finger articulations to the Bundled Acoustic Guitar and adding a complete Classical Guitar instrument and sounds, where the following YouTube music video demonstrates a variety of the techniques one can play with the various guitar tab articulations for Electric Guitar, where in this instance I ran the NOTION 4 Bundled Electric Guitar through AmpliTube 3 (IK Multimedia) to add a bit of texture and also used Timeless 2 (FabFilter Software Instruments) to add custom echoes . . .

[NOTE: The drumkit is done with Addictive Drums and the Diabolic MIDI Pak, which features Arch Enemy drummer Daniel Erlandsson; MachFive 3 provides the airy background synthesizer; and the Grand Piano and Electric Bass are NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments. I made some of the Electric Guitar articulations intentionally absurd, since this originally was intended as a way to demonstrate the range of articulations one can use with the NOTION 4 Guitar Tab, but I like the way it sounds, so I made it a song . . . ]

"Abyss" (The Surf Whammys) -- YouTube music video

Explained another way, when you combine the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments and the virtual instruments you already have via Cubase and Kontakt, you have a deep and rich selection of virtual instruments from which to choose, and in some instances you will want to use the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments but in other instances you will want to use some of the VSTi virtual instruments you have, where it is useful to know that you can mix and match the various instruments as you desire, with the exception that you need to use the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments if you want to use the guitar tab functionality, where for certain Acoustic Guitar finger articulations and for Classical Guitar you will want to use the relevant Expansion Sounds . . .

One of the FORUM members (JohnF) did a stellar YouTube music video demonstrating what one can do with the NOTION 4 Classical Guitar Expansion Sounds, which is fabulous . . .

"Adela" (JohnF) -- YouTube music video

Fabulous!

With the Cubase and Kontakt VSTi virtual instruments, you have several thousand instruments, and for the synthesizers, each one typically can be at least a few hundred instruments if you do a bit of custom work with oscillators and the other controls, knobs, and parameters that are provided for the various VSTi virtual instrument synthesizers . . .

And if you have an external MIDI keyboard synthesizer, you can use it with NOTION 4 via NOTION 4 External MIDI staves, since NOTION 4 External MIDI staves can provide the music notation notes and commands for external MIDI keyboard synthesizers if you have an external digital audio and MIDI interface like the MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid (a personal favorite) . . .

Additionally, you can create your own custom templates and then use them as the starting point for new songs, where the easy way to do this is to start with a blank NOTION 4 score and then to add the specific instruments you desire, followed by saving the NOTION 4 score and then later using it to create a new NOTION 4 score by opening it and then immediately doing a "Save As . . . ", which saves time and lets you focus on composing immediately . . .

Lots of FUN!

They stock library is quite fine. Think of it like an instrument. You have to learn how to use it. The samples are of one of the finest orchestras in the world playing in one of the most sought after recording studios in the world. But you have use them as such. A gross generalization I would give is to experiment with the more extreme dynamic markings of the various patches.

-t

Thank you for the kind words Surf.

The samples in Notion are quite good - and better than what you'll find in other programs - but if you're looking for a more realistic sound, samples will always come into play.

The biggest selling point IMO for Notion, is its ease of use. No program beats how easy it is to write, and quickly, and intuitively, edit. I would still use Notion if it had the worst midi sounds around. It's that easy.

Thank you surfwhammy for the detailed reply, i appreciate your time and same goes for everyone else that chimed in!

So i take it i would have to buy the extra samples to get the full articulations and orchestra?

How much in total would i pay then? in $ or £'s?
I know the software is around 99$(£)
but which sample bundle is the one for complete orchestra? or could i just get away with using the samples that come with the notion software?

Thanks for your help so far.

Jaws75 wrote:Thank you surfwhammy for the detailed reply, i appreciate your time and same goes for everyone else that chimed in!

Glad to help!

Jaws75 wrote:So i take it i would have to buy the extra samples to get the full articulations and orchestra?

Not really . . .

Some of the Expansion Sounds are focused on Jazz instruments with articulations specific to Jazz playing styles, and this is the case for most of the Expansion Sounds, where they augment and enhance the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments for those composers and performers who have additional requirements or need sampled sounds for different genres . . .

Jaws75 wrote:How much in total would i pay then? in $ or £'s?
I know the software is around 99$(£)

You can check the prices at the Notion Music Store website for all the various products . . .

Whether the price is in US dollars, Australian dollars, Canadian dollars, British pounds sterling, Euros, Yen, or whatever depends on where you are located, and in some instances there will be sales tax or VAT, but it really depends on where you are located and the exchange rate . . .

If you need the boxed set (physical media rather than electronic download), then there are shipping costs . . .

In the US, Musician's Friend sells the boxed set for $99, and they have free shipping and typically do not charge sales tax unless you are in a state where they have a warehouse. Amazon.com does the same thing, but they now have warehouses nearly everywhere, so you have to pay sales tax . . .

Jaws75 wrote: . . . could i just get away with using the samples that come with the notion software?

Yes, I think so . . .

For the most part, everything you need is included with NOTION 4, which as you noted is $99 (US) for the electronic download version . . .

NOTION 4 includes a Full Orchestra, as well as Electric Guitar, Electric Bass, Acoustic Guitar, Acoustic Bass, and a nice set of Latin Percussion instruments, Drum Set, Electric Piano, Techno Synth, Harpsichord, Celeste, Clavinet, Harp, and various Voices and Choirs, although the Voices and Choirs are piano notes and are provided for sheet music purposes . . .

Since NOTION 4 supports VSTi virtual instruments, you can download the free versions of some nice VSTi virtual instruments like Addictive Drums and Addictive Keys (XLN Audio), which run in 64-bit mode . . .

IK Multimedia has free sample versions of some of its products, but the virtual instruments at present are 32-bit only. However, AmpliTube Custom Shop is 32-bit and 64-bit, but it is an effect that lets you make the NOTION 4 Electric Guitar sound as if it were played through a variety of guitar amplifier, loudspeaker, and effects pedal rigs . . .

There is free version of the Kontakt 5 Player (Native Instruments), as you know, and I think it has a few instruments and sampled sounds . . .

Bolder Sounds has some free sampled sound libraries for Kontakt 5, but they also sell specialty sampled sound libraries like full-range Hand Bells, Crystal Glasses, Renaissance Keyboards, and so forth, some of which are fascinating . . .

Bolder Sounds

The general rule with virtual instruments and sampled sound libraries is that most of the companies have discount sales every so often, hence the frugal strategy is to get on their mailing lists and then to wait until they have a discount sale, which is what I do . . .

THOUGHTS

The NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments are very nice, and once you learn how they sound and work, as well as how the NOTION 4 Mixer works, you can get very realistic sounds . . .

The NOTION 4 Expansion Sounds augment and enhance the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments, so it depends on what your specific needs happen to be . . .

For example, if you need a Classical Guitar, then this is available as an Expansion Sound package which includes additional articulations for the Acoustic Guitar that comes with NOTION 4 as a Bundled Instrument . . .

The orchestral instruments were played by the London Symphony Orchestra and were recorded at Abbey Road Studios, so everything is first class . . .

As a general rule the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments and the add-on Expansion Sounds are deeply integrated with NOTION 4, which maps to having and supporting more articulations, which is not always the case with third-party VSTi virtual instruments, although it depends on how much you want to spend on custom sound sample libraries . . .

As best as I can determine, Vienna Symphony Library (VSL) has some excellent sampled sound libraries, but I was curious about the cost, and after doing a bit of reading and checking I think that one could spend perhaps $20,000 (US) getting every product they offer, which is well beyond my current budget, although if I were scoring a major motion picture I suppose it would not be a big expense . . .

Summarizing, you get a Full Orchestra and a lot of additional instruments with NOTION 4, so for the most part everything you need is included, but if you need additional instruments, they are available in the NOTION 4 Expansion Sounds packages . . .

Lots of FUN!