Bizarre Goings On

[palm38]

I open a VST track in Notion, choose Vienna Instruments Pro (not a Notion Preset). I then assign one of VSL's Chord Presets. I place the notes, enter the appropriate keyswitch notes setting them earlier than the playing notes and ensure that the corresponding matrix cells are loaded.

It plays perfectly several times, then save it. Then it doesn't play at all. I reload it. Same silence.

I export it as a midi file and load it into Logic and reproduce the instrument. It doesn't play. There are several keyswitch notes other than the ones I entered that Notion has apparently exported. I remove these. The file plays beautifully.

Back in Notion I find that if I copy a couple of notes and try and paste them into a new track they are not copied over except that occasionally these notes will now play on the problem track. Once. Change the page view. A couple of notes will play once.

I try to delete notes from the problem track. They don't delete.

I try the same thing with a simpler VST/Vienna instrument (the chord presets require 3 keyswitch notes) and it works fine but on midi export it shows the same three incessant keyswitches introduced by Notion (D-1/F-1/C9) but these don't seem to effect the output.

It seems that by introducing these keyswitches, Notion is confusing a complex instrument (and itself). Can anyone think of a way to avoid these irrelevant keyswitches?

[palm38]

When Notion writes a midi file from an EastWest VST/Play staff it does not add in the D-1/F-1/C9 interminable keyswitches. When it does the same from a VST/VIPro staff, even one that does not employ a Notion preset (and even one that has been converted from a Play configuration), it does write the keyswitches.

The keyswitches seem to be causing the problem. Is it a bug in Notion that is writing these uncalled-for keyswitches?

[Admin]

Dear palm38,

I have looked into this and I cannot regenerate the issue. It's not a Preset VST, so this is puzzling. Are you using a set of Custom Rules perhaps? It sounds like you might have a set of custom rules that you are referencing accidentally, (meaning, maybe you have an "Rules" folder in the same folder that you have saved the score to.) That would cause problems after you save, and would also send keyswitches that were not desireable, especially in the VI Pro chord presets.

Here is a picture of what I loaded to test. Solo Strings Chords Standard Set, using some articulations to see if key switches would be sent. There are no extraneous key switches being sent because there is no rules to tell VI Pro what to send in a non-preset VST.

VI Pro.png (268.96 KiB) Viewed 11435 times

Next, I exported it to Logic to see if I could get the same results:

Logic MIDI Import.png (90.81 KiB) Viewed 11435 times

There are no extraneous key switches:

Entire Piano Roll.png (213.56 KiB) Viewed 11435 times

If you want to, contact tech support and send us the score. We can look over it more carefully that way. Here is the email address:

support@notionmusic.com

Regards,

Admin

[palm38]

Thanks for your reply.
I can't find a Rules folder anywhere on the way to the file so I assume it is using the the VSLPRO_V2 rules in the packages PluginData folder.
When I look at that file, it uses a plugin id of vipr making no distinction between Notion generated presets and others (the Brass Chords preset which I used is one of VSL's) which would seem to indicate that every instrument that uses the VIPRO player would follow that rules file.
The reset at the end of this file (main keyswitch) appears to set pitches 1, 5 and 120 (not 2, 5, and 20 as I stated) which are of course the keyswitches that are being entered unwanted.
As I said, these are entered ONLY after the file is saved.
I am keen to resolve this because it would seem to be a rather neat way to control non-Notion preset VI instruments using three controller staves and a player stave in Ensemble.
I have tried using the offending Brass Chords instrument in Logic and feeding it to Notion but Logic refuses to be a Rewire slave.
Thank you for the offer to look over my score but there is no score as such to send. I have just been trying out the possibilities.
I will attempt to embed a virgin Rules folder with the project and also try a set of Vienna Ensemble PRO prules that I found but that may preclude using VSL presets with Notion presets in the same composition. If I have no success, I will contact tech support.

Thank you

[Johnny]

The "letters" are the "plugin id" code used in the rules for a given VSTI that is written into a "prules" document.
The alphabetical letters for an "enabled" VSTI can be found by opening the "Instrument Change" dialog box ( Ctr-i ) on a Windows PC. In this window(box) "the name of the VSTI is followed by 4 letters and a reference number in parentheses.
For example:
-- XLN Addictive Drums four letter ID is : "xaAD" . ie, Addictive Drums (xaAD,ref. 10001) .
-- Modartt Pianoteq4 is : "Pt4q"
-- Native Instruments Kontakt 4 is : "Nik4" .
-- Samplemodeling Soprano Sax is : "SaxS" .
These are just some of the instruments ID's that I use in the rules (prules file). All combined into one "prules" document.
Sorry this isn't related to your issue and diagnostic tests but I couldn't help add this information in regards to the "plugin ID's being coded in letter form.
,Johnny

[Johnny]

Also should have stated that the lettering codes may/will be different for different platforms whether Win/Mac and whether it's a 32bit vst or 64bit. This system works for me. I don't know if Notion Music will keep using this code for Id's in the future. I certainly hope so; however, it's not hard to update prules documents.

P.s. As to your Notion question/issue. Are you using 32bit vsti or 64 bit? Which version of Notion?

, Johnny

[palm38]

Problem solved. I think.
I have been calling up the VSL official presets by using a Notion one and overwriting its content with the VSL one.
The structure of the Notion code seemingly persists.
When I avoid this practice, everything seems to work as it should.

It is more than useful to have other users tell me that what I am having a problem with works for them. It overrides the feeling that "there's something wrong with this program" rather than "there's something wrong with me".
Plus you learn something. Thank you.

[wcreed51]

It sounds like you're overwriting the whole instrument, so that the articulations have a different matrix layout. If you replace individual sample, and keep the layout, it will work as expected.

[Admin]

Dear all involved,

The "letters" are the "plugin id" code used in the rules for a given VSTI that is written into a "prules" document.
The alphabetical letters for an "enabled" VSTI can be found by opening the "Instrument Change" dialog box ( Ctr-i ) on a Windows PC. In this window(box) "the name of the VSTI is followed by 4 letters and a reference number in parentheses.

This information in the Instrument Change dialogue box is in no way related to the Rules file that is being used or referenced. These plugin id's that you have located as a four letter string, "xxxx", refer to how Notion looks for the proper version of Vienna Presets, whether they be for Notion 3 Legacy preset rules for Vienna or the Notion 4 preset rules. The plugin id's in this case have no 'end-user' bearings.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Next:

When I look at that file, it uses a plugin id of vipr making no distinction between Notion generated presets and others (the Brass Chords preset which I used is one of VSL's) which would seem to indicate that every instrument that uses the VIPRO player would follow that rules file.

- The Rules in the plugin data folder will only be used if you load the Vienna VST as a Notion Preset. If you load Vienna as a Custom VST from the VST menu in the Score Setup window, you can then set your own rules to work with. Then, base the rules off of the Keyswitches in the new presets that you load. We do not have a Notion Preset that works with the Vienna Chords Libraries. The only libraries that we send out are the Special Edition Libraries.

The reset at the end of this file (main keyswitch) appears to set pitches 1, 5 and 120 (not 2, 5, and 20 as I stated) which are of course the keyswitches that are being entered unwanted.

I think what you might be doing is you are trying to load Vienna Chord presets, patches and matrices that you own into the Notion Built-In Presets. That is why you are getting the Main Sound Keyswitches in a Vienna Chord Preset that has no correlation to our Preset Rules files.

I am keen to resolve this because it would seem to be a rather neat way to control non-Notion preset VI instruments using three controller staves and a player stave in Ensemble.
I have tried using the offending Brass Chords instrument in Logic and feeding it to Notion but Logic refuses to be a Rewire slave.
I will attempt to embed a virgin Rules folder with the project and also try a set of Vienna Ensemble PRO prules that I found but that may preclude using VSL presets with Notion presets in the same composition. If I have no success, I will contact tech support.

You can certainly use the VSL Presets and the Notion Presets in the same score. Just use a different instrument VST to do it. You can also send multiple Staves to the same MIDI Channel making it possible to have Controller Staves playing back simultaneous to your Player staff. If you are trying to do this, you are probably going to need two or more Vienna Ensemble Instances because our presets can only be loaded through the preset menu in Score Setup and the Custom VST menu will load the Custom Rules version of your own (or Vienna's) Presets.

I hope I am understanding the problem, and I hope that my solution makes sense to you. There are some limitations to what you are trying to do, if I understand you correctly. But, if you are willing to work around the limitations, which will take some effort, I believe you can get the programs to work the way you are wanting them to.

Regards,

-Admin

[Johnny]

Admin!
You stated "This information in the Instrument Change dialog box is in no way related to the Rules file that is being used or referenced."

I started using the numbering code method for plugin ID's and found my rules to work with the "XXXX" letters.

My question!!
Why is it my rules (prules) using "xaAD" as the ID # work perfectly in remapping my XLN Addictive Drums to the Notion staff. All the note heads included! I can copy a drum pattern from a Notion Drum Set staff onto an Addictive drum staff and replay it perfectly!

It also works with ALL of my plugs.
Have you tried it yourself?

These all work key-switches AND! Notion techniques and articulations (without any doubt on both of my 32 and 64 bit versions of Notion 4.

MusicLab Real Les Paul Custom: "RLPC".
Spectrasonic Trillian Bass: "Ruby".
Sample Modeling Soprano Sax: "SaxS".
Sample Modeling instruments that use Kontakt 4: "Nik4".
,Johnny