Using MIXER

[Francois2010]

In order to highlight the three solo instruments of my triple concerto, viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3757 I gave more volume to the violin, cello and piano, making adjustments on the MIXER. (See picture).

I had to do that with the MIXER because the use of dynamics did not give the desired result for the soloists.

The consequence of this is a significant loss of volume of the other instruments. The volume is low, even if I put fortissimo these other instruments. (Orchestra).

Is there something I did not understand about the use of the Mixer?

[GaryExo]

I notice you have quite a differential between your main instruments and the rest of the orchestra. Would your mix sound better overall if you simply pushed the rest of the orchestra up a little, perhaps around -1 - 0 dB?

[thorrild]

François,

Increasing the volume on the fader is not a good way to get an instrument to "stand out." You should investigate using a VST insert like the one mentioned by a fellow forum member the other day, Virtual Sound Stage. (Thanks, Michael!)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3760&p=14262#p14262

I have downloaded a demo version of it, and so far, I am impressed at the depth perception you get when using it.

If you place your solo instruments "closer to the conductor" (or microphone) using the VST, I think you will be pleased with the result without having to change the actual volume of the instrument playback.

There are other inserts that do things like ducking, mostly used in popular music. Surfwhammy can probably fill you in on those...

Best wishes,
Thorrild

[Surfwhammy]

There are other inserts that do things like ducking, mostly used in popular music. Surfwhammy can probably fill you in on those...

The specific genre is very important when one is pondering arranging, producing, mixing, and mastering strategies, and my general perspective on most Orchestral and Symphonic music is that the dynamic range tends to be nearly absurd, going from so quiet that you cannot hear it to so loud that it can be a bit painful, so when I listen to this type of music on the FM radio or a CD I run it through a compressor limiter to make everything always the same volume, which in part is based on the rule that if you cannot hear it, then it serves no purpose and basically just increases the background hiss and noise . . .

I fully understand that composers who focus on the aforementioned genres probably meet every so often in a coffee shop and share their experiences using vast dynamic ranges, which might be a bit like, "The oboe serenade was so quiet that I could barely hear it over my own breathing, and then they fired the cannon and it was so loud that I did a poop, which was awesome!" . . .

Awesome!

As a general rule, the sampled sounds for Orchestral and Symphonic instruments are recorded with a lot of overhead, which maps to lower than what I consider to be normal volume levels, which is fine, but I put a compressor, leveling amplifier, limiter, expander, noise gate, or some type of signal processing plug-in on each instrument and use it very gracefully to get the recording level where in my view it should be, and I peg all the volume sliders to 0 dB and from that point forward use the more detailed settings of the signal processors to control the relative volumes of the instruments . . .

Panning is another very important consideration, and depending on the sampled sound library, it is often the case that individual instruments are recorded in the locations where they usually are placed in a full orchestra, which makes panning a bit difficult and also increases the background reverberation, hence I prefer to use sampled sounds recorded "dry" in a small studio, since it is easy to add reverberation and echoes but is difficult if not impossible to remove reverb and echoes . . .

Another useful bit of information is that when you listen to Orchestral and Symphonic music on FM radio, the radio station runs everything through at least one compressor, leveling amplifier, limiter, expander, or similar device which primarily ensures that the broadcast signal always is within legal bounds, where in the US this is determined and monitored by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and when radio stations do not follow the rules they lose their broadcast licenses . . .

Over the years, several companies have created a virtual festival of signal processors for this purpose, and some of these signal processors have quite amazing melodic properties, where they do the mandatory FCC stuff but in a way that does not destroy the original dynamics, sonic characteristics, textures, and so forth, and after a while producers and audio engineers discovered that these types of signal processors can be used in a recording studio to enhance various instruments and singers . . .

T-RackS CS Grand (IK Multimedia) has very accurate digital emulations of the most popular of these signal processors, and they are very nice, not only for my currently favorite genres but also for Orchestral and Symphonic genres . . .

THOUGHTS

It is important to understand that the volume sliders are logarithmic, as is the unit "decibel (dB)" . . .

In the respect, I agree that having a big difference in the volume slider positions for a few instruments is not the ideal way to make a few instruments louder, since what happens is that the big difference maps to the other instruments not being heard . . .

Lots of FUN!

[Francois2010]

I notice you have quite a differential between your main instruments and the rest of the orchestra. Would your mix sound better overall if you simply pushed the rest of the orchestra up a little, perhaps around -1 - 0 dB?

Better! Thank you sir.

[Francois2010]

François,

Increasing the volume on the fader is not a good way to get an instrument to "stand out." You should investigate using a VST insert like the one mentioned by a fellow forum member the other day, Virtual Sound Stage. (Thanks, Michael!)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3760&p=14262#p14262

I have downloaded a demo version of it, and so far, I am impressed at the depth perception you get when using it.

If you place your solo instruments "closer to the conductor" (or microphone) using the VST, I think you will be pleased with the result without having to change the actual volume of the instrument playback.

There are other inserts that do things like ducking, mostly used in popular music. Surfwhammy can probably fill you in on those...

Best wishes,
Thorrild

Hello and thank you!
Could you give me the exact link to a download. I'm not sure I understand all your message.

Thank you again.

[thorrild]

François,

Here is the link:
http://parallax-audio.com/

The demo lets you try the software indefinitely, but you can't save any settings. The purchase price is US$99.
Feel free to send me a private message if you need help using the insert.

Best wishes,
Thorrild