automated mixing

[frabato56]

Hi All,

I've been enjoying composing with Notion4 for a couple of months now and I'm quite happy with my purchase. I do need automated mixing though and I think (of course one doesn't really know until they need something else) that that's about the only other feature I really NEED. So, I guess it could be a feature request if it isn't already one. But, for now my question is this: What program could I use to import my Notion4 midi files and easily set it up for my multichannel VSTi's (mirolsav philharmonik and kontakt5) and have automated mixing? Another thing, my 7 year old son is using Notion4 and he's getting along with it quite well but it does leave out reaper which I think is a wonderful (and very well priced program) but it took me two days to figure out the midi routing and I wouldn't look forward to teaching it to my son. And finally, I need to be able to sync with video (quicktime in particular which is the default export format for the lightworks video editor - an open source, free video editor that really rocks). Okay, I guess that expands the feature requests to 1) automated mixing and 2) video sync capability. But really, I like Notion4 for what it already does and while I'm not a programmer, I suspect that these two requests are not trivial bits of programming. I have cubase 5 studio and there is a bug while mixing (I'm not a very good typist so I won't go into detail) that makes it impossible for me to use, so I'm looking for suggestions. Not too expensive would also be nice and I'm on Windows 7.

Thanks!

[Surfwhammy]

What program could I use to import my Notion4 midi files and easily set it up for my multichannel VSTi's (mirolsav philharmonik and kontakt5) and have automated mixing?

In some respects, it depends specifically on what you need to do and the way you define "automated mixing", so instead of answering the obvious question, I will explain another way to do what I think you want to do . . .

Provided you are running the 32-bit version of NOTION 4, you can use Miroslav Philharmonik directly in NOTION 4, and you can use Kontakt 5 in either the 32-bit or 64-bit versions of NOTION 4, where since you are doing digital music production on a Windows machine, it is useful to note that there are separate installs for the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of NOTION 4, while on the Mac both versions are in the same "package" and can be switched by setting an option . . .

The primary limitation in the 32-bit universe is the application workspace, which overall is limited to 4GB, and this determines how many VSTi virtual instruments you can use in a NOTION 4 score, but there are various strategies for doing scores with a lot of VSTi virtual instruments when you do the music notation and audio generation in NOTION 4 but do the generated audio recording via ReWire 2 in a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application like Reaper in Windows or Digital Performer 8 or Logic Pro 9 on the Mac, noting that there is a version of Reaper for the Mac, but I do not use it, since I like Digital Performer 8, and there is a Windows version of Digital Performer 8 . . .

The keyword here is ReWire, and based on the reports by Windows folks in this FORUM, I think that it is accurate to state that Reaper does ReWire very nicely . . .

Reaper (cockos)

So, the first suggestion is to get some information on ReWire and what it does, where the basic strategy is that the DAW application will be the ReWIre host controller and NOTION 4 will be a ReWire slave, such that NOTION 4 generates the audio for the various VSTi virtual instruments based on the music notation you specify and then sends the generated audio to the DAW application, where the DAW application records the audio as soundbites, tracks, or whatever terminology the specific DAW application uses, where for reference Digital Performer 8 calls these things "soundbites" . . .

ReWIre (Propellerhead Software)

Once you have recorded the NOTION 4 generated audio as soundbites in the DAW application, you can close NOTION 4 and then focus on doing the automated mixing and other producing types of work in the DAW application, which is where you will want to use any VST or other types of effects plug-ins to enhance the music, and depending on the DAW application, you can control various mixing parameters via automation, which is what I think you want to do when you write about needing to do "automated mixing" . . .

Although I do not use Reaper, I have done some experiments with it, and I think that it is full-featured, and the price certainly is attractive . . .

You also can work with video in Reaper to some extent, and this should be sufficient to get the music synchronized and edited, where once this is done you can export the music and then import it to your full-featured video editing software . . .

There are some important things to know about ReWire, and one of them is that the parameters and configuration needs to be correct, because if even one parameter is incorrect, then it typically will not work, which is a bit frustrating at first, but mostly because it is new technology when you first start using it, hence you do not know all the rules for configuring everything correctly . . .

Once you understand how ReWire works, it actually is very easy to use, and there are Windows folks in this FORUM who can help you get ReWire working correctly on a Windows machine . . .

As noted I am not certain what you are doing at present, but it sounds as if you are doing the music notation with the NOTION 4 Bundled Instruments rather than with Miroslav Philharmonik and Kontakt 5 directly, which is fine, except that it appears you want to use Miroslav Philharmonik and Kontakt 5, so if this is the case, then you need to read about using VSTi virtual instruments in NOTION 4, since you can use Miroslav Philharmonik and Kontakt 5 VSTi virtual instruments directly in the 32-bit version of NOTION 4, and you can use the 64-bit version of Kontak 5 in the 64-bit version of NOTION 4 . . .

Also note that you will be using ReWire 2, which has both 32-bit and 64-bit functionality--but not at the same time--so you need to ensure that you are using the correct mode for ReWire 2, which will be the mode that matches the mode you are using for NOTION 4 and for your DAW application, where if NOTION 4 is running in 32-bit mode, then you need to use the 32-bit version of ReWire 2 and the 32-bit version of your DAW application, and the same applies if you are running NOTION 4 in 64-bit mode, where ReWire 2 and the DAW application will need to run in 64-bit mode . . .

Yet another strategy, which works on the Mac and probably works on Windows machines, is to use NOTION 4 External MIDI staves to send the MIDI notes and commands based on the music notation to the DAW application . . .

You can do this with Reason (Propellerhead Software), which is a fascinating digital music production application that also is a DAW application, and I think you can do this with Reaper, although this is mostly a guess. If you can do it with Reaper, then you will need a "virtual MIDI cable", and these are available for Windows users. On the Mac, there is a built-in "virtual MIDI cable" feature . . .

Reason 7 (Propellerhead Software)

I need to be able to sync with video (quicktime in particular which is the default export format for the lightworks video editor - an open source, free video editor that really rocks).

You probably can use Reaper to get the soundtrack and music synchronized with the edited video, but I am not certain how much detailed control Reaper provides for music and video . . .

Digital Performer 8 has extensive video synchronization capabilities, but it is a bit pricey . . .

There is more information on Digital Performer 8 and film scoring at the following link, where if you scroll downward a good bit, there is a video that explains what Digital Performer 8 can do with respect to film scoring . . .

Digital Performer 8 (MOTU)

Lots of FUN!

[frabato56]

Hi Surfwhammy,

I should have mentioned that I'm using kontakt 5 and Miroslav philharmonik (with jbridge) on 64 bit which works just fine. I looked at digital performer and that looks like an excellent and very serious piece of software if your doing professional video. I only need the video sync to do voice overs and simple music for rather amateurish home videos that my son and I do. The automated mixing is for a composition that I started in cubase 5 studio and imported into Notion4. There are 16 tracks, all midi, and there are fade ins and fade outs and volume levels change often. I think that even though routing seems complex in reaper it looks like it will do the job quite nicely. I was planning to finish the composition in Notion4 and do the mix in reaper but ReWire may be a way to continue having editing capability in Notion4 while mixing in reaper. I'm not sure if I can send individual tracks from Notion4 to individual tracks in reaper with ReWire but I'll check it out.

Yet another strategy, which works on the Mac and probably works on Windows machines, is to use NOTION 4 External MIDI staves to send the MIDI notes and commands based on the music notation to the DAW application . . .

That sounds interesting, I didn't know about External MIDI staves . Thanks very much for the reply!

[Surfwhammy]

Hi Surfwhammy,

I should have mentioned that I'm using kontakt 5 and Miroslav philharmonik (with jbridge) on 64 bit which works just fine. I looked at digital performer and that looks like an excellent and very serious piece of software if your doing professional video. I only need the video sync to do voice overs and simple music for rather amateurish home videos that my son and I do. The automated mixing is for a composition that I started in cubase 5 studio and imported into Notion4. There are 16 tracks, all midi, and there are fade ins and fade outs and volume levels change often. I think that even though routing seems complex in reaper it looks like it will do the job quite nicely. I was planning to finish the composition in Notion4 and do the mix in reaper but ReWire may be a way to continue having editing capability in Notion4 while mixing in reaper. I'm not sure if I can send individual tracks from Notion4 to individual tracks in reaper with ReWire but I'll check it out.

Yet another strategy, which works on the Mac and probably works on Windows machines, is to use NOTION 4 External MIDI staves to send the MIDI notes and commands based on the music notation to the DAW application . . .

That sounds interesting, I didn't know about External MIDI staves . Thanks very much for the reply!

Glad to help!

pcartwright, one of the Windows folks in this FORUM, is expert in what you want to do, so perhaps he will provide a few clues, but if you do a FORUM search and read some of his posts, the information might be there already . . .

As I recall, you can send individual tracks from NOTION 4 to Reaper, so this should not be a problem, and on the Mac I can edit the NOTION 4 staves in a ReWIre 2 session where Digital Performer 8.04 is the ReWire 2 host controller, which I do in 64-bit mode but at present not using Miroslav Philharmonik, which is a bit annoying, because I really like the IK Multimedia VSTi virtual instruments . . .

One of the advantages of using ReWire 2 is that you can continue to do the music notation work in NOTION 4, while doing the mixing and mastering in the DAW application, and you can edit the NOTION 4 music notation in a ReWIre 2 session, but remember to save your work in NOTION 4 every so often. You also can add new instruments to the NOTION 4 score in a ReWire 2 session . . .

As noted in my previous reply, it is useful to understand that getting NOTION 4 and the DAW application configured correctly for ReWire 2 can be a bit complex at first, but this mostly is a matter of ReWIre 2 being a new technology for most folks . . .

The NOTION 4 side of things is easy to configure, but the DAW application side can be more difficult . .

It works, and it makes everything more productive, and I like the crisp look of Reaper 4, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!

[Admin]

One nice feature of Notion is that automated mixing is supported via writing Dynamics into your scores.

Just thought this might help.

-Admin

[frabato56]

Yes thanks Admin! This project is a bit weird in that it was 90% composed in cubase 5 studio and some other odd bits like gongs where the attack is not heard but fades in afterwards. For most future projects I will probably be using the dynamics in Notion4, especially since I bought the program partly to teach my seven year old standard notation and some technique in composition. After several frustrating hours I figured out (with some help) the basic midi routings that I need in Reaper and I also get video sync for our little home videos that are done in Lightworks. Notion4 + Reaper = some pretty powerful stuff for $160. I'm a happy customer, keep up the good work!

[kmlandre]

You can also check out this thread:

MTC Sync - http://forum.notionmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1470

It discusses using MediaVst, which comes in 32 and 64 bit flavors.

I've used the 32 bit version and it's quite functional, though, I advise you ahead of time to create a small, low bitrate version of your video. Otherwise, playback can be fairly jerky and uneven, presumably because of codec and memory issues (I haven't looked to deeply into it).

If you have the software to do it, you may also want to have a time stamp written to the screen as there's functionality like that in MediaVst.

But, all in all, it's pretty functional for casual work...

Kurt M. Landre'