iamnemo wrote:Thanks for your reply.
My reason to try to do it this way is to keep Notion alive as in audio ReWire but still be able to edit CC curves in my DAW without losing Notion's ability to send the correct key switches to the VSTi's. The ReWire audio-only does not allow that but I've used it in the past for other reasons.
I also don't want to export a MIDI file because it's static and creates too many back and forth when the score is still evolving.
What I normally can do is the following: I use the MIDI OUT ports/channels in Notion 4 and direct them, trough LoopMIDI, to the SONAR MIDI tracks which control the corresponding instruments, i.e. the VSTi's are loaded as instruments in SONAR. That works well EXCEPT that I lose all the key switches information, I receive only the MIDI note messages so a change from arco to pizz for example is not reflected in the output.
I know about (and tried) a somewhat similar setup where, instead of using Notion's MIDI OUT's, the utility staff is directed to a VSL VEPRO5 instance in which instruments are loaded (using Notion 4 presets) and all other staves point to it using Shift-I, each with its own MIDI channel. In that case all key switches are transmitted properly.
How can setup a Notion staff that talks to say MIDI OUT Port A Channel 1 AND transmits all the articulation data (key switches) properly?
Glad to help! I am limited in the specific help I can provide, since you are doing everything on a Windows machine and I am working on a Mac, but at least I can show you what happens on the Mac, which might be a bit of help in discovering how to get it working in Windows . . .
Now that I understand what you want to do, I did an experiment to verify that NOTION 4 is sending all the information when it is controlling a standalone virtual instrument via music notation on a NOTION 4 External MIDI staff, which I did using the standalone user interfaces for the Aria Player (Aria Engine) and MachFive 3 (MOTU), where to be specific, these two virtual instruments are running on the Mac as separate and independent applications. They are not running as VSTi virtual instruments in NOTION 4 . . .
This NOTION 4 score has two External MIDI staves, and it has
no NOTION 4 Bundled or Expansion Instruments and
no VSTi virtual instruments, hence NOTION 4 is only sending the MIDI notes and commands via a "virtual MIDI cable" that is connected via the operating system and the applications . . .
In the high-resolution video, you will see MachFive 3 first and then Aria, where both have Grand Pianos assigned, and you can verify that NOTION 4 is sending all the MIDI notes and commands by looking in the MIDI Spy window, which is the application at the right of the screen in the video . . .
[
NOTE: The Aria Player is controlled by the top NOTION 4 External MIDI staff (MIDI Port A Channel 1), and MachFive 3 is controlled by the bottom NOTION 4 External MIDI staf (MIDI Port A Channel 2). This is a high-resolution file, so if you download it, you can watch it in high-resolution if you have a QuickTime Player or whatever one uses in the Windows universe. If you use Firefox for Windows and have the QuickTime plug-in, then you can watch it in Firefox, as well . . . ]
NOTION 4 External MIDI to MachFive 3 and Aria with MIDI Spy on the Mac -- QuickTIme Movie MP4 (18.8MB, approximately 1 minute and 38 seconds)In part due to the types of song I do--mostly
DISCO and
Pop, where the primary articulation and dynamic are "pulsating" and "loud", respectively--I usually avoid using articulations and dynamics, so I am not the "go to" person for tips on articulations and dynamics, but I used the NOTION 4 Palette and added a bunch of articulations and dynamics that I recognize and use occasionally, although on the other side of the coin I do use articulations for the NOTION 4 Bundled Electric Guitar, so for some instruments I know a bit about articulations . . .
This experiment verifies that on the Mac, NOTION 4 External MIDI staves are sending both the MIDI notes and the MIDI commands and instructions for articulations and dynamics to the extent that NOTION 4 supports such articulations and dynamics, where for reference as best as I understand everything, NOTION 4 supports most of the articulations and dynamics, but there are some articulations and dynamics that NOTION 4 currently does not support, where as an example I recall that for a while NOTION did not send the MIDI commands for Pedal Up and Pedal Down, but it is sending them now, as you can observe and hear . . .
[
NOTE: Technically, I am not certain that NOTION 4 actually is sending Pedal Up and Pedal Down messages, since watching the keys in the Aria Player, it appears that NOTION 4 is sending Note ON messages but not the Note OFF messages while Pedal Down is specified, which probably is different from sending Pedal Up and Pedal Down commands, but it sounds the same to me . . . ]
Whether this is what happens when NOTION 4 is running in Windows is another matter, and I have no way to verify it, as is the case with determining whether SONAR X2 or any other DAW application for Windows receives all the MIDI notes, commands, instructions, and so forth, but intuition suggests that some of the DAW applications probably do receive all the MIDI stuff . . .
THOUGHTSIf you have a real keyboard synthesizer like an Alesis ION Analog Modeling Synthesizer or a KORG Triton Music Workstation (88-Keys), which is what I have at present here in the sound isolation studio, or perhaps a newer keyboard synthesizer that does MIDI, as well as a MIDI interface for your Windows machine and some real MIDI cables, then you can do an experiment where you send MIDI notes, commands, instructions, and so forth from a NOTION 4 External MIDI staff to a real external MIDI keyboard synthesizer, which should allow you to determine whether NOTION 4 is sending all the MIDI stuff, and I suggest this because one possibility is that the "virtual MIDI cable" you currently are using is not transmitting all the MIDI stuff sent by NOTION 4 . . .
On the Mac, NOTION 4 External MIDI staves send all the MIDI stuff, and it is easy to verify this by watching the MIDI traffic via MIDI Spy, which is a handy utility application for the Mac . . .
The other possibility is that SONAR X2 or whichever version of SONAR you are using is filtering and discarding everything but the MIDI note ON and OFF instructions . . .
I did a few initial experiments with Digital Performer (MOTU), but (a) I have never done MIDI with Digital Performer and (b) I have no idea how it works, hence at present I cannot tell you for certain that Digital Performer 8 will do what you want to do, but after a while I will call the MOTU folks and ask them about it, since this tends to be what I do on the rare occasions that making sense of something requires reading the user manual, since the MOTU folks usually can tell me what to do in a few minutes, which is vastly easier than trying to make sense of it by reading the user manual, in part because user manuals usually are written by professional technical writers who never actually use the software, hence have no idea how anything works, with the result that the information in user manuals is correct in terms of English grammar and spelling but makes absolutely no sense, which is the case because the professional technical writers get their information from the software engineers, all of whom are computer geeks and have done everything so many times that they think everyone else knows all the shortcuts and so forth, which nearly never is the case, where as an example since among other things I am a software developer, it took me about a month of working 18 hours a day doing experiments to discover how to do ReWire 1.7 with NOTION 3, which included consultations with the MOTU folks, and I have a university degree in Computer Science . . .
Yet, now that I know how ReWire works, I can tell someone how to do it on the Mac in about five minutes, because it is extraordinarily easy to do on the Mac - - - - - once you discover how to do it, where it is useful to understand that all the available user manuals and various documentation are helpful, which is all I care to say about it at the moment . . .
And as part of the ongoing effort to have FUN with ReWIre, I became a registered third-party ReWire developer, which took approximately 18 months and mostly happened (a) because the folks at Propellerhead Software want to have as many third-party Rack Extension developers as possible and (b) my application was sitting there in the queue with all the correct answers and information at exactly the right time, which now maps to my having all the detailed internal information on ReWire, including the ReWire Software Development Kit (SDK) and documentation, which maps to my having a much better understanding of how everything works, although I cannot write anything about it that is covered by the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA), but I can tell you that it is an amazing technology that works wonderfully when it is implemented correctly, which is the responsibility of the application(s) and for Digital Performer 8, Reason 6.5, and NOTION 4 on the Mac is done correctly, which is fabulous . . .
Fabulous! P. S. Perhaps some of the Windows folks can provide more specific information, including whether it is possible to do what you want to do on a Windows machine?