NOTION Music Forum

Here’s one of those inexplicable problems… On playback, the cello remains piano, despite the dynamic markings.

wcreed51 wrote:Here’s one of those inexplicable problems… On playback, the cello remains piano, despite the dynamic markings.

I did a quick test with NOTION 4 (64-bits), MachFive 3 (MOTU) Cello, and the NOTION 4 Cello, and the dynamics work correctly, but the overall volume level is low as is heard in the high-fidelity video done with Screenflow (Telestream) . . .

NOTION 4 (64-bits) ~ MachFive 3 Cello, NOTION 4 Cello, Mac -- QuickTIme Movie -- MOV (2.3MB, approximately 24 seconds)

For me, this is not a problem, because I "pump" everything with a variety of compressors, limiters, or leveling amplifiers, but I was a bit surprised at how low the overall volume level was, and this happened with both of the celli (MachFive 3 Cello and NOTION 4 Cello), so it might be something Screenflow is doing . . .

[NOTE: In this version, I used the T-RackS CS Grand Vintage Compressor Model 670, which is one of the types of compressors an FM radio station might use, since it is melodic and tends to preserve the original dynamics in a relative way, which is something that FM radio stations have to do in the US due to FCC broadcasting requirements and standards, especially with Symphonic and Orchestral music when it has wildly varying volume levels which usually is the case. There are several now classic compressors, limiters, and leveling amplifiers that originally were designed to meed FCC broadcasting requirements but had certain properties that made these signal processors attractive to audio engineers and producers for use in recording studio work, which is interesting and a bit amusing because these signal processors were designed specifically to get recorded music to a happy broadcasting level in a melodic way, but when the audio engineers and producers started using the same signal processors, what happened was that the signal processing essentially was done two or more times (how every many times it was done when recording, mixing, and mastering songs plus an additional time by the radio stations . . . ]



NOTION 4 (64-bits) ~ MachFive 3 Cello, NOTION 4 Cello, T-RackS CS Grand Vintage Compressor Model 670, Mac -- QuickTIme Movie -- MOV (2MB, approximately 24 seconds)

Lots of FUN!

The dynamics are working correctly previously in the score. Here's the MIDI in Sonar. You can see that Notion just stops sending velocity messages to the instrument.

Probably deleting the measures back to where it's working properly and re-entering will fix it.

wcreed51 wrote:The dynamics are working correctly previously in the score. Here's the MIDI in Sonar. You can see that Notion just stops sending velocity messages to the instrument.

Probably deleting the measures back to where it's working properly and re-entering will fix it.

It is a bit puzzling . . .

As noted when I did the experiments on the Mac the dynamics were there, but the overall volume was very low, which is similar but not exactly the same as what happened on your system . . .

Perhaps it is associated with the current version?

I will rollback to the previous version and see if it happens there . . .

Lots of FUN!

Hi Bill,

I'm probably asking the obvious, but could this be one of those situations where an above-staff dynamic disables all following below-staff dynamics? Say, if a piano was entered above the staff and then dragged below, it will, I think, disregard a forte in the following measure if that was entered below. (I should test this more before making pronouncements, but I seem to have had that trouble in the past...)

Nah, probably wouldn't be that simple.

Best,
Thorrild

I'll look again when I get home later, but as far as I know, all dynamics are bellow the staff.

Here is the situation:

Dynamics playback using the Expression Controller not Velocity. Velocity is setup differently in Notion as to work according to the note on velocity, but not for the continuous controller of a hairpin.

The dynamics in your score are playing back, but it is a 3dB difference from one dynamic marking to another. I placed the parts that you have written in your score into a new score using an External MIDI channel. My channel is routed to MIDI Port A: Ch. 1. Then, using MIDI Monitor as a MIDI Source input, I analyzed the results. Here they are:



Notion is working as designed and if you want a more dramatic increase or decrease in your hairpin, there are a couple of options.

You can either change the range of your dynamic change, eg., mF to FF or F to FFF.

or,

Double click your dynamic markings and add dB to them. For example,



In this example, I have decreased the dynamic level of the F by reducing it's dB by 1.5dB. Once you press return, you will still have a F marking, but you will hear the playback at a lower volume level.



In this example I have done the opposite. I have increased the FF by 1.8dB. You will still see FF in the score, but you have increased the volume of output.

Hope this helps,

-Admin

I guess I'm not making myself very clear...

I understand how dynamics work. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that in this particular score, at a particular measure in the Cello staff, velocity is no longer being sent, as you can clearly see in the PRV image above. I assume there is some sort of corruption in the file. Entering the notes in another score won't reproduce that...

Admin wrote:Here is the situation:

[snip]
In this example, I have decreased the dynamic level of the F by reducing it's dB by 1.5dB.
[snip]
Hope this helps,

-Admin

Not that this has anything whatsoever to do with the OP, but I couldn't resist, really.

Really...

Those of us who read the User Guide for at least 2 hours every night before lights out have to point out that on page 10.14, it says clearly that each integer represents a dynamic level, not 1 decibel. Dynamic levels are defined thus: mp-1 = p; mp-5 = ppppp and mf+1 = f; mf+5 = fffff. Levels beyond mp-5 and mf+5 are not possible, but they can be adjusted within these limits in increments as small as 2 decimal points. The edited dynamic "f+1.5" will play back at the loudness point between ff and fff.

With only the best of intentions,
Thorrild

Thorrild you were right! There was one PP that slipped in above the staff, and from there on the cello played PP.

I moved it bellow the staff, and now playback is fine. Thanks!