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Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

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Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby Frieda » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:58 pm

When I put in between the markings P and FF a cresc. text in the score the volume gradually increase. But a hairpin < does not do that at all? What am I doing wrong?

Kind regards,


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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby Frieda » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:05 pm

I solved the problem. I had to start the hairpin at the note where the P marking stands and end the hairpin on the note where the F marking stands.

Kind regards Frieda
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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby GaryExo » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:58 am

Yes, apparently this function is "object oriented" so it seems you have to always have your cresc. or dim. linked directly to a dynamic marking.

I'd like to know if the Notion guys would consider changing the nature of this function because one doesn't really write scores in this way!
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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby thorrild » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:13 pm

Dear Notion,

Please don't change the way hairpins function. It works very nicely as it is.

Best wishes,
Thorrild

PS: Tip to GaryExo: If you prefer hairpins without dynamics at both ends, simply hide those dynamics from view.
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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby GaryExo » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:26 pm

@thorrild: I would just like Notion to function as much like a real world score as possible, that's all. You should be able to write a hairpin anywhere without necessarily specifying a dynamic marking to make it work.
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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby pcartwright » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:13 pm

GaryExo wrote:@thorrild: I would just like Notion to function as much like a real world score as possible, that's all. You should be able to write a hairpin anywhere without necessarily specifying a dynamic marking to make it work.


Sure, but computers run on instructions. Would you rather control how loudly or softly the crescendo/decrescendo moves with Thorrild's technique or have Notion hard code the effect?
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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby Admin » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:45 pm

GaryExo wrote:@thorrild: I would just like Notion to function as much like a real world score as possible, that's all. You should be able to write a hairpin anywhere without necessarily specifying a dynamic marking to make it work.


The difference in Notion and a "Real World Score" is that musicians play "Real World Scores" and a computer plays a Notion score. You do not have to tell good musicians how loud to get, because they listen to each other based on where the dynamic markings go or are coming from, but the computer has no way of determining this unless you, the composer, tell it what to do.

I like the comment earlier which said that if you do not want to see them, you can hide them. And, there are plenty of composers who put dynamic markings on the end of their hairpins to let the musicians know what their context is.

This feature will probably not be changed any time soon, but, we are trying to get something that crosses into both modes of operation on hairpins. Bottom line is, you have to tell the computer what to do somewhere, otherwise it just gets louder or quieter based on time, which really doesn't work either, because it still doesn't know where to go.

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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby dgriffee » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:01 pm

using a dynamic mark at both ends of hairpins, and then "hiding" some of them is the best way to get lots of expressiveness without cluttering up your score. I have a macro key on my keyboard programed to hit the "hide" menu item quickly and I use it constantly while working with this aspect. The precision you can control your sounds with this way is excellent. Sometimes I even split a long note up into several shorter duration notes tied together, so that I can put exact markings to have hairpins in the middle of a sustaining sound. For example if you want to do an expressive swell up and back down on a half note, make it two quarters tied together and stick an f in the middle with a p at both ends and a pair of bookend hairpins, very quick and easy. Alternatively some folks prefer to do such details in a sequencer via CC envelopes, but I myself find it faster and simpler to just do it in the score as I'm writing.
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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby GaryExo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:58 pm

dgriffee wrote:using a dynamic mark at both ends of hairpins, and then "hiding" some of them is the best way to get lots of expressiveness without cluttering up your score. I have a macro key on my keyboard programed to hit the "hide" menu item quickly and I use it constantly while working with this aspect. The precision you can control your sounds with this way is excellent. Sometimes I even split a long note up into several shorter duration notes tied together, so that I can put exact markings to have hairpins in the middle of a sustaining sound. For example if you want to do an expressive swell up and back down on a half note, make it two quarters tied together and stick an f in the middle with a p at both ends and a pair of bookend hairpins, very quick and easy. Alternatively some folks prefer to do such details in a sequencer via CC envelopes, but I myself find it faster and simpler to just do it in the score as I'm writing.


Yes, I'm coming to realise that this is probably the best way to work in Notion. I had already discovered a little of what you describe. Thanks.
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Re: Hairpin no gradual increase in volume

Postby GaryExo » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:59 pm

Directly related to what's just been discussed, I'd like to ask for the following in a future Notion update:

Shortcut key to open the attachments menu and one for toggling "Show Hidden Items" would be very handy. Ctrl H for the last one, maybe?

It would make the workflow of working with and hiding dynamics much smoother.

I did post that initially in Feature Requests but it doesn't seem to be getting read in there.

Many thanks.
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