NOTION Music Forum

Here's a potentially very simple/stupid(?) question for you: when data is exported in MIDI format from Notion to, say, Sonar or Cubase, are ALL the articulations (even those entered using Express Entry), program changes, CC controller levels, etc. preserved.

In other words if I use VSL SE Pro presets in Notion can I assume that I can transfer to a sequencer which offers easier CC control, load the same synths and get the same performance?

What is the smoothest way to transition a complex full orchestral score created in Notion 4 and using supported libraries (VSL SE, EWQLSO, Garritan,...) TO a sequencer for finalizing the work? What method is best to preserve all the work already done in Notion?

Thanks and sorry if this is trivial.

Yes it does...

This is MIDI data exported from Notion (using VSL Cello) and imported into Finale, with all keyswitches included.

Thank you wcreed51 for your test case.

I tried it with East West, exported to Logic from Notion and I did not get the same type of results, but now I realize that I was not using a Custom Preset.

So it appears that we do. Sorry for the misinformation.

-Admin

Good Catch!

So here is an update:

We definitely do send this type of information. I have retested this functionality and got all keyswitch data, so all of your markings in Notion will go out, either from a Custom Preset, or a Notion file that you have established Custom Rules for VST's.

Tech Support and I had a conversation about this and apparently it did not work in Notion 3, but I think even this was a misnomer. So, I am going to remove my previous post to eliminate confusion on the matter.

Thank you wcreed51.

-Admin

I was rather taken aback when I saw this in notation, and quickly moved over to XML. But if moving to a sequencer it should be just what's needed.

But you're correct, this doesn't happen when exporting EWQLSO to MIDI, I guess because not using keyswitching with the full instruments.

I can confirm that this takes place with GPO rules (custom and default). I think Bill is correct in that EWQLSO rules use channel changes instead of keyswitches most of the time. I bet if you repeat the test using the "lite" EWQLSO presets, you would see the same kind of keyswitch data included in the MIDI file.

pcartwright wrote:I can confirm that this takes place with GPO rules (custom and default). I think Bill is correct in that EWQLSO rules use channel changes instead of keyswitches most of the time. I bet if you repeat the test using the "lite" EWQLSO presets, you would see the same kind of keyswitch data included in the MIDI file.

All I was saying was that I had been using a file that had EWQL loaded, but I forgot that I was not using the rule file in my original test. That was why I did not get the Key Switch Data.

I have since tried it in Vienna Ensemble and all Channel data goes out along with articulation Key Switches, Note Durations, Pitch, Velocity, Dynamics and so on.

So this is working.

I think when I had a discussion about it this morning the references were from an old Notion 3 build that did not do this, because at some point in our history, we were not doing this properly, but it appears that at some point in the history of more recent development, we got it in and working.

So that is good news.

-Admin

Other than the audio recording and mixing features already mentioned, you can also route the MIDI back to the DAW via the MIDI A, B, C, D ports in Notion (and a virtual cable such as loopMIDI) to get more sophisticated MIDI effects and editing capabilities. For example, I can route MIDI from Notion to an instrument in Reaper and edit CC data in Reaper without having to record it in Notion. Basically, I can use Notion for notation editing and Reaper for MIDI data control.

My application is exactly that: notation and preliminary score and rendering in Notion then detailed CC control in SONAR. Would someone (maybe the author) clarify the statement above (taken from another thread) with a simple example? A few questions:

1) Is the DAW the ReWire Host in this case or the Slave?

So if I understand well I send the MIDI *out* of Notion from ports A,B,C,D via loopMIDI to say SONAR, associate it with MIDI tracks there.

2) If I use ReWire to do this will the key switches (probably since they're only notes) and other data flow through? 3)

3) What happens to all the nice Custom Rules for my VSL instruments in Notion. Will they get translated to MIDI instructions and output through ports A-D too?

4) Do I need to load VSL in Notion for prelim work and also in SONAR for final CC work?

5) Why do I need loopMIDI? I thought ReWire was able to transmit 256 audio channels & 4000+ MIDI channels.

6) How can I, with SONAR as the reWire HOST have all the individual mixer channels from Notion appear in SONAR as separate audio tracks? All I get now is that the tracks are created but only one is active and contains the stereo mixdown from the main channel in Notion?

Any answer(s) will be greatly appreciated!!! Thank you in advance for your help!
An obviously confused ReWire user

OK I answered my question 6 above: assign Outputs in each channel strip of Notion mixer.
New question:

7) Do I need to create a tempo track in SONAR and enter every tempo and meter changes present in my original score in Notion? Is there a way to transfer these automatically between the two apps?

1) Is the DAW the ReWire Host in this case or the Slave?

Sonar can only act as host. Some DAWs can act as host or slave. Notion can act as either, but again, Sonar would be host and Notion slave.

So if I understand well I send the MIDI *out* of Notion from ports A,B,C,D via loopMIDI to say SONAR, associate it with MIDI tracks there.

Yes.

2) If I use ReWire to do this will the key switches (probably since they're only notes) and other data flow through? 3)

3) What happens to all the nice Custom Rules for my VSL instruments in Notion. Will they get translated to MIDI instructions and output through ports A-D too?

You would need to write custom rules for MIDI ports A - D. What you need to understand is that the rules for VSL are designed for playback in Notion. You will bypass the preset rules in Notion if you use MIDI ports A - D unless you add your own rules for these ports.

5) Why do I need loopMIDI? I thought ReWire was able to transmit 256 audio channels & 4000+ MIDI channels.

I'll defer to Surfwhammy on the mechanics of rewire, but I've found that only the rewire host can send MIDI. Notion, to my knowledge, cannot send MIDI data back to the host. The main purpose of rewiring Notion and a DAW is for synchronized playback and better mixing capabilities. Using MIDI ports A - D is a work-around where you can send MIDI through the four ports via a virtual connection (such as loopMIDI) and feed the signal back into Sonar (or your DAW of choice).

4) Do I need to load VSL in Notion for prelim work and also in SONAR for final CC work?

You can certainly do this. Here's the steps you would probably take:

Write your composition/orchestration in Notion using VSL
Export MIDI
Import MIDI into Sonar and add necessary VSL instruments
Fine tune and render

Note that this scenario would require you to use two different production steps and that Sonar and Notion would not be synchronized using this process.

7) Do I need to create a tempo track in SONAR and enter every tempo and meter changes present in my original score in Notion? Is there a way to transfer these automatically between the two apps?

I don't recall the steps in Sonar, but an exported MIDI file from Notion contains changes in tempo and meter, so you should be able to import the tempo and meter into Sonar. I haven't worked with Sonar in over a year, so you might want to post this question on the Sonar forum.