Attention:

Welcome to the old forum. While it is no longer updated, there is a wealth of information here that you may search and learn from.

To partake in the current forum discussion, please visit https://forums.presonus.com

Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby wcreed51 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:27 pm

I assume one wouldn't have to write custom rules, but merely copy Notion's VSL rules into the proper custom rule subfolder?
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
User avatar
wcreed51
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:50 am
Location: Berkshires, MA USA

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby pcartwright » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:41 pm

A few of the xml lines needed are different for the MIDI outputs compared to VSL and other supported libraries.

I don't have VSL and haven't looked too deeply into the rules used, but GPO and EWQLSO rules are based on instrument ID (so I would assume that VSL is probably the same). I'm not really sure if the equivalent Insturment ID functionality exists in MIDI port rules, but I can almost guarantee you that several modifications would be needed to make VSL rules work with MIDI ports A - D.
pcartwright
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby dshertz » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:02 am

Hi, iamnemo:

I don't believe you will get the same performance with VSL in a sequencer as you will with Notion, especially if you have a high density of note events.

I have found that Notion (at least the last time I tested) tends to transmitt excessive NoteOn info and CC11 info when you export midi. This is because Notion does not use running status and it does not transmit cc 11 info only when there is a change.

When I did a step enter of Hedwig's Theme (the full score) I found that this excess of midi info was boggling VI
when it was played by Cubase but not when the same arrangement was played in Notion.

I wrote a program to filter the excess midi events. Take a look at:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1639
Notion 4, VSL SE, LASS, BBB, Symphobia, Ivory, Real Guitar, CineSamples Brass and Winds
Win 7, I7 3770-3.4GHz, Asus P8Z77-V, 16Gb, PreSonus Firebox
dshertz
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:39 am

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby iamnemo » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:05 am

Thank you all for this interesting discussion and for sharing information.
Thank you David for your insight in this matter and for sharing your program. Very useful!

This leaves me a lot of thinking to do on how to proceed in general to move from Notion to sequencer without having to duplicate some (tedious) work, like patch selection (KS) and CC control.

Bonus questions:

1) Are there any plans to make it easier in Notion to add CC data to staves without having to go through the process of creating extra staves, using Shift-I, hiding them later, etc. Maybe a little "+" sign next to instrument name in normal view could let the user do it easily. It could even be a way to access all the staff data: VST info, patch, channel, CC data, names, etc.

2) Why is the number of MIDI outputs A-D limited to 4 ? Why not being able to access any existing MIDI lane (like virtual ones provided by utilities such as LoopMIDI, etc.) ?
User avatar
iamnemo
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby pcartwright » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:07 pm

iamnemo wrote:2) Why is the number of MIDI outputs A-D limited to 4 ? Why not being able to access any existing MIDI lane (like virtual ones provided by utilities such as LoopMIDI, etc.) ?


The number if MIDI outputs is dictated by Notion. You should keep in mind that these four outputs exist for applications such as LoopMIDI or physical outputs like a MIDI cable to a synth. So, through these four outputs, Notion does support virtual and physical MIDI connections.

I do agree that more than four ports could be useful when doing a lot of virtual/internal MIDI routing.
pcartwright
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby iamnemo » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:32 am

Physical MIDI ports... I forgot about those :oops:

This brings an O.T. question: is there a way to connect one end of a virtual MIDI cable (e.g. loopMIDI) to a physical MIDI port? I ask because there are virtual "Y-cables" that could be useful then (check for ex. http://www.ddmf.eu/product.php?id=3).

Update I tried it: I connected Notion's MIDI OUT PORT A Ch1 to a LoopMIDI 1 cable and the "other end" of this cable to a synth MIDI In in SONAR (which was the ReWire host). Didn't work. I was expecting the notes on the Notion staff associated to MIDI PORT A Ch1 to trigger sounds on the synth in SONAR but it didn't work....

What am I missing here? Could someone try this in their own sequencer as the reWire host for Notion 4 and post the result here please? If it worked I have an idea that could be quite interesting IMHO but I want to check this first before...
User avatar
iamnemo
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby pcartwright » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:36 pm

I have it working with Reaper as host, Notion as slave (both 64 bit).

I'm not that familiar with Sonar anymore, so I can't help you there. I recall having some problems when Reaper used "both ends" of the virtual MIDI cable. So my only suggestion would be to make sure Sonar only has access to the receiving ends of LoopMIDI, but again, I haven't used Sonar in a while and don't how MIDI interfaces are managed.
pcartwright
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby wcreed51 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:44 pm

I think ReWire and virtual MIDI are mutually exclusive...
Bill Reed
Notion 4, Sibelius 7.5, Finale 2011/14, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5
Win8 x64, 32GB RAM
M-Audio ProFire 2626
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
User avatar
wcreed51
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:50 am
Location: Berkshires, MA USA

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby pcartwright » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:06 pm

Here are my steps in Reaper.

Background info:
I have LoopMIDI inputs enabled in Reaper
I have LoopMIDI enabled in MIDI ports A - D in Notion.

You can see the MIDI signal coming through Reaper (host) when notes are played back in Notion's MIDI A staff.

LoopMIDIReaperNotion.gif
LoopMIDIReaperNotion.gif (1.95 MiB) Viewed 8313 times
pcartwright
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Moving data from Notion 4 to sequencer

Postby Surfwhammy » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:19 pm

wcreed51 wrote:I think ReWire and virtual MIDI are mutually exclusive...


With the caveat that I am by no means an expert on MIDI (real or virtual), on the Mac I was able to control two Reason 6.5 (Propellerhead Software) synthesizers via music notation in NOTION 4 External MIDI staves, and doing this involved creating a "virtual MIDI cable", which is easy to do on the Mac via Audio MIDI Setup. At the same time, I had a ReWire 2 (64-bit) connection where NOTION 4 was the ReWire 2 host controller and Reason 6.5 was the ReWire 2 slave . . .

And I also was able to do this in the more complex scenario where Digital Performer 8 (MOTU) was the ReWIre 2 host controller and both NOTION 4 and Reason 6.5 were ReWire 2 slaves, such that the generated audio ultimately was handled by the Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application, which in this instance was Digital Performer 8 . . .

The notes for the two Reason 6.5 synthesizers originated in NOTION 4 and, as indicated, were on two External MIDI staves, but the transport control and presentation of the audio was handled by Digital Performer 8, since it was the ReWire2 host controller and the ReWire 2 host controller has the responsibility for presenting the audio generated by the ReWire 2 slaves . . .

Hence, this tends strongly to suggest that it is possible to do ReWire2 and External MIDI via "virtual MIDI cables" . . .

And one of the things I discovered about ReWire 2 is that it handles MIDI synchronization, so there is a bit of synergy in this respect . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

P. S. The instructions for creating a "virtual MIDI cable" are in another post to this FORUM, as is the link to the video that shows Digital Performer 8 controlling NOTION 4 and Reason 6.5 via ReWIre 2, which includes simultaneously NOTION4 controlling to Reason 6.5 synthesizers via music notation on two NOTION 4 External MIDI staves . . .
The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
User avatar
Surfwhammy
 
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:45 am

PreviousNext

Return to NOTION

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests


cron