Attention:

Welcome to the old forum. While it is no longer updated, there is a wealth of information here that you may search and learn from.

To partake in the current forum discussion, please visit https://forums.presonus.com

'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby solo1 » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:43 am

This is an attempt to progress forward on making our individual libraries work with Notion the way we'd like.

For instance using keyswitches in EWQL instead of channel changes. I've picked up some help from others on the board and thought this might be a good repository for what we find though I'm sure Lubo will smile at my feeble attempt to understand this.

Problems I can see are that the rules seem to have to apply to every instrument within a library. So if a keyswitch is applied to one instrument that uses say 'd1' to change to Pizzicato then all of them have to. I'm starting to understand why they've approached EWSO this way.

What I've learned:

I've managed to make the EWQL KS patches work by copying the key-switch commands from the VSL rules (an XML file) to the EW. But where the Violins need 'D1" the cellos need 'A7'. Individually they work if the rule is changed at the start of the program. But never together.

I was hoping that when you saved each instrument the rules got hard coded into each .notion instrument file but they don't . They are apparently are read on each boot of the program.

My problem now is simply making Vienna Ensemble Pro understand channel changes since I have two computers and could use the EW patches as they are. But VSL Pro doesn't seem to take the channel changes.

Perhaps others can chime in here on what they've found.
solo1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:10 pm

Re: 'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby solo1 » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:45 pm

Okay, seeing how the rules seem to act like VST expression, that is you apply a channel-change when a particular expression is called, I loaded up the Violins 1 .ewi from Notion into VE Pro. I then went into Cubase and built a VST expression map to imitate it and guess what -- it works.

So I can't figue out why channel- change message from Notion aren't getting to VE Pro but they are in Cubase.
solo1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:10 pm

Re: 'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby dgriffee » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:02 pm

Cool experimenting, yah I been futzing with solving the puzzle of the notion rules configurability too. It looks like a very extensively configurable program, somebody there is a very wise application programmer to have architected it that way. I wish they would just publish the docs for their xml config scheme, there's a few smart folks floating around out here who could probably do some very cool tweeks that would be of benefit to all.

It kind of looks like they are using some kind of "rules engine" to handle all the conditions that ultimately translate notation elements to midi instrument params. I see a few places where they are nesting some rules for more complex mutual exclusive cases. Seeing as how they use one big batch of rules for each entire library, they have to have a condition tag in their scheme to allow a rule to determine which instrument within the library each staff line has been assigned to. Thus we could put conditions on each articulation rule such that it would hit the appropriate different keyswitch notes per different EWQL instruments.

Take a look at how they handled this in

.../Generic/rules/GPO_Aria.prules

down at the bottom they have different keyswitch notes for violin, viola, cello, bass etc by including a tag like this
if instrument-id="12345"
in a bunch of duplicates of the same rules that just have different instruments using different keyswitch notes.

Now if we could just find out where instrument id numbers are mapped to the various *.notion presets, then we could actually config Notion to use the EWQL keyswitch masters properly. I would then want to go into the *.notion presets and DEactivate some of the articulations I never use (as recommended in EWQL Play docs) so not to waste RAM, and I bet we could cook up very useful lean&mean revisions from the EWQL master keyswitch instruments that would actually load and run pretty darned quick in a typical machine today having less than 128G RAM (big grin).
User avatar
dgriffee
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:09 pm

Re: 'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby solo1 » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:01 pm

Thanks, dgriffee, I'll have a look at that tomorrow. I'm sure we've gotten ahead of what Lubo is going to show us, but your observations indicate it may be possible to overcome these problems. Gives me hope.

Still can't figure out why VE Pro won't accept the channel changes when it does from Cubase.
solo1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:10 pm

Re: 'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby astinov » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:05 am

Hello everyone,

I will be preparing some tutorials on how to use your own custom rules files and how to set up custom templates files. The subject is big though, and it will take me some time. I hope to be able to do it by the end of the week and have it posted ASAP.

Please bear with us for that time. If you change anything yourself, please do back it up somewhere, so you are sure you don't ruin your work.

Without going into too much detail there is a world of customizations you can do, but please give us some time and we'll get those tutorials and docs for those of you who want to experiment with those.

Thanks

Lubo Astinov
astinov
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: 'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby solo1 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:19 am

Thanks, Lubo. We will be looking for it.

One thing I noticed that may need to be considered while you're doing this is that, in mine and at least someone else's, the VSL and Miroslav presets don't show when you enable them with VST manager. Only the instrument itself is shown. And if you use Shift + I and look under add instruments they are not there either.

And if you try to open the .notion preset from Windows explorer they just open to a blank staff with the name. When you do this with EW, which works properly within your program, they actually open and load an instrument with the preset.
solo1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:10 pm

Re: 'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby astinov » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:43 am

solo1,

Could you do me a favor and update to the latest VSL software - Vienna Instruments and Vienna Ensemble 2.0 ? (VE 2.0 was used for the presets) and let me know if this solves the issue.

If not, could you pm me and I'll let you know how we can go about figuring out what went wrong, if you can work with me on this I'm sure we'll figure it out. It has to be something unique to your environment.

Thanks

Lubo Astinov
astinov
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: 'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby solo1 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Lubo,

I'm actually on Vienna Ensemble Pro and upgraded to the newest version yesterday (which I believe was more like VE pro 3.) Thought I'm not using any Vienna Instruments. Still don't know why the VE and Miroslav presets aren't at least showing up.

Anyhow, I'm on eastern time and can't do anything until this evening. Also, I'm sorry I didn't expect to hear from you for a few weeks. I only started this thread so we could trade some ideas while waiting.

Brian
solo1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:10 pm

Re: 'Rules' Thread - customizing libraries in Notion

Postby dgriffee » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:26 pm

oh wow, so glad Lubo is back already, did not expect so soon. I would imagine that with the uber wizard back in town we will probably very soon see a more perfectly revised Notion preset config using the EWQL master keyswitch instruments. Hopefully that will aleviate a whole bunch of "workaround problems" that have been cropping up, and we can start challenging him ;) with more interesting musical use cases
User avatar
dgriffee
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:09 pm


Return to NOTION

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


cron