EWQL or VSL?

[Jeff Wolverton]

Good Point.

Jeff

[Surfwhammy]

As George said, the VSL SE series and EWQLSO are the only two "big" libraries supported by Notion out of the box. It doesn't really mater what people are using in the industry (and it's not these two) if they don't work for you in Notion. Assuming Notion is your chosen tool.

Intriguing comments!

QUESTION: When you wrote "and it's not these two" as a caveat to "what people are using in the industry", were you suggesting that there are other libraries that people are using, and if so then what are they?

[NOTE: The following thoughts are general, so they might not apply to what any particular person wants to do, hence "you" is relative, but so what . . . ]

THOUGHTS

While it is true that only a few VSTi virtual instruments and their corresponding sample sound libraries are supported by NOTION 3 with specifically tailored templates, rules, and so forth, this does not preclude using other VSTi virtual instruments and their corresponding sampled sound libraries . . .

For reference, these are the VSTi virtual instruments and corresponding sampled sound libraries that NOTION 3 supports internally:

(1) Vienna Special Edition and Special Edition Plus (Vienna Symphonic Library)

(2) Miroslav Philharmonik (IK Multimedia)

(3) EastWest/Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra Platinum

(4) Garritan Personal Orchestra (MakeMusic, Inc.)

I have Miroslav Philharmonik and all the other IK Multimedia VSTi virtual Instruments and corresponding sampled sound libraries, but I do not use them in NOTION 3 with the predefined templates, rules, and so forth . . .

Instead, I use them on a "per staff" non-mapped basis, since among other things I generally avoid using articulations and dynamics in music notation, and I also do everything with soprano treble clefs in the key of C using absolute pitch or whatever in 4/4 time, since it keeps everything simple in a mathematically elegant way, where there are 12 notes and 8 or 9 octaves . . .

If I want a bowed violin with vibrato, then I create a soprano treble clef staff; assign the Miroslav Philharmonik VSTi to the staff; select a bowed violin with vibrato; make whatever adjustments are necessary with the Miroslav Philharmonik standalone user interface; and this is what the particular staff does . . .

This also is the way I use Addictive Drums (XLM Audio), Kontakt 5 (Native Instruments), MachFive 3 (MOTU), and Twin 2 (FabFilter Software Instruments) . . .

Depending on the way one reads the NOTION 3 User Manual, it appears that there is a way to use NOTION 3 to control some of this stuff via External MIDI, and this is something I am exploring as time allows, where at present I have added a nice but inexpensive adjustable articulated "notebook computer holder arm" to the mixing desk, which I use as the "holder" for a Behringer UMA25S U-Control 25-Key USB Midi Controller Keyboard, so that when I need to use the MIDI keyboard I rotate the arm into position but otherwise I rotate the arm so that it is out of the way . . .

[NOTE: The round white thing in the background is a roll of fiberglass insulation that I am using as a deep bass absorber, and there are several of them in the sound isolation studio, along with five GreenFiber cellulose insulation "cubes" (2.17 cubic feet, each), since by doing some acoustic measurements I discovered that there is was a deep bass hotspot (modal standing waves) in the range of 40-Hz to 70-Hz . . . ]



Really!

Explained another way, so long as it is a VSTi virtual instrument and it runs in 32-bit mode, NOTION 3 can use it, although it probably needs to output at standard CD quality (44.1-kHz at 16-bits), since this is the audio quality that NOTION 3 uses natively . . .

The IK Mulimedia VSTi virtual instruments are customizable to some extent, but the Kontakt VSTi virtual instruments are vastly customizable, and with NOTION 4 on the horizon, if I were looking to purchase a VSTi virtual instrument I probably would wait a while, since the level of VST technology (Steinberg) that NOTION 4 supports will be very important, since with VST 3.5.1 it becomes possible to shift all the mapping stuff to the VSTi virtual instrument, which makes Kontakt 5 quite intriguing, with ReWIre 2 (Propellerhead Software) being another very important consideration . . .

The primary reason for avoiding using articulations and dynamics in music notation concerns what can happen in certain scenarios, where one scenario occurs when only some of the notes played by the musician are sampled, in which case the notes that were not sampled are emulated by logarithmic interpolation, which in some respects is fine when it is just a half step or at most a whole step and the articulation is not time-based or motion-based, but when the articulation is time-based or motion-based, which is the case with tremolo and vibrato, what happens is that the emulating algorithms typically do not include adjustments for the tremolo or vibrato speed or rate, where for tremolo while the speed should be as constant as a metronome, it will speed-up or slowdown depending on the way the emulated notes are computed . . .

I do not like to compose stuff that nobody can play, which overall maps to focusing on one specific articulation at a time, where I am fine with using an articulation like staccato, but switching rapidly from vastly different playing articulations does not make a lot of sense to me, so I avoid it . . .

If I needed a solo violin to play five vastly different articulations, I would spread the notes over five staves, where each stave is set to a sample of the solo violin played in the specific articulation, since as best as I have been able to determine so far, when every note played by the musician is sampled, then every note is played as indicated in the music notation without requiring emulating algorithms, except even when done this way there is a bit of computing unless there are specific samples for every tempo and so forth, which probably is the reason that some of the high-end sampled sound libraries cost so much . . .

Some types of time-based or motion-based articulations are easier to do with VST effects plug-ins when the sampled sounds are dry, where for electric guitar this is the case with tremolo . . .

Yet another significant factor is that nearly nobody considers is the quality of the studio monitor system, which is one of my ongoing projects and is coming along very nicely, since I discovered the rule and determined the cause of the problem, which specifically is that there are no commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) full-range studio monitor systems currently made by any company anywhere on this planet, where "full-range" is in this context refers the the full range of normal human hearing, which is 20-Hz to 20,000-Hz . . .

The other key aspect is that there are two general types of listeners or "hearers", where one type are fundamental tone hearers and the other type are overtone hearers, with the difference being that fundamental tone hearers are not so easily fooled by the "Missing Fundamental" auditory illusion, hence must have a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, as explained in vast detail in my ongoing topic in the IK Multimedia FORUM . . .

[NOTE: There is a link the the simple test to determine whether one is a fundamental tone hearer or an overtone hearer in the footnotes for the "Missing Fundamental Auditory Illusion" wikipedia link. The studio monitor system I use consists of a pair of Kustom KPC15 15" Powered PA Speakers and a pair of Kustom 12" PA112S Powered Subwoofers, which are vastly overpowered for the sound isolation studio (6' wide by 12' long and 7' high), but I run that at a per unit volume level of approximately 3, which I verify with a Nady DSM-1 Digital SPL Meter to be in the range of 85 dB SPL, plus or minus 5 dB SPL, which is the optimal SPL for mixing, and this works because it satisfies the "big and heavy" rule of acoustic physics that Sir Isaac Newton discovered in the late-17th century and among other things is the reason that a contrabass is a lot bigger and heavier than a vioiin . . . ]

Missing Fundamental Auditory Illusion (wikipedia)

The Fabulous Affordable Studio Monitor System Project (IK Multimedia FORUM)

A particular piece using specific VSTi virtual instruments and corresponding sampled sound libraries will sound different depending on the type of studio monitor system the audio engineer or producer doing the mixing was using, and there is no way to know in advance how it actually sounds until you listen to it with a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, since headphone listening will not work . . .

SUMMARY

If you are planning to spend approximately $1,500 to $2,000 (US), then my advice is to continue getting information and doing research until NOTION 4 is released, and if you are fundamental tone hearer but do not have a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, then I would focus on solving the studio monitor problem first before considering which high-end VSTi virtual instruments and sample sound libraries to get, because if you are a fundamental tone hearer but do not have a calibrated full-range studio monitor system, then you are not hearing anything accurately in your studio, really . . .

Really!

[wcreed51]

Some widly used

Strings: LASS, EW Hollywood Strings, Cinematic Strings, VSL orch strings, Spitfire Albion and the Symphobias

Brass: EW Hollywood Brass, Cinebrass, VSL Brass, Spitfire Albion, Project SAM Brass, and the Symphobias

Woodwinds: EW Hollywood Orhestral Winds, VSL Woodwinds, Berlin Woodwinds, Cinewinds, and the Symphobias

[dgriffee]

_____BOTH!!!____

I have been enjoying great sounds from the combination of EWQL(SO and HW) and VSL(spec.ed)

Here's why:
EWQL is great for the ambience of the multi-mic method of sampling they use, you just can't simulate that real soundstage with artificial reverb. I do my mixes in surround sound, which EWQL is perfectly suited for same reason. By itself, the EWQL sound tended to become somewhat indistinct, not muddy but not crystal clear either.

I tried VSL and loved the punch and clarity of thier close mic sampling techniques, but of course by itself that sounded a bit clinical and sterile even with artificial reverb.

The combination of EWQL plus VSL gave me both the realism of the natural ambience and the clarity of the fine nuances. I set them both up in VEpro "metaframes" and balanced all the relative instrument levels for a perfect blend.

(edit) I run each instrument as a pair on same midi channel, so that I only have one line for each instrument across both combined libraries. For example, on the score I just see one line for "vln" and that single line of the score drives the EWQL violins ("Symphonic"and Hollywood") and the VSL violins, with appropriate articulations and techniques as marked in the score. This did require some (simple) customizing to combine the rules for both so that I got all the correct articulations sounding out of both libraries as per notation markings, but the convenient coincidence is that the keyswitches for EWQL versus VSL are in different octaves so that you can use the preprogrammed patches and combined rules for both EWQL and VSL simultaneously, and their different keyswitches do not conflict with eachother. You just have to combine the rules carefully so that you don't step on your own toes by falling through a rule with same conditions (grin).

(edit) To combine the EastWest "Hollywood" strings, I found the simplest solution was to use a utility program that always copies the CC11 expression to also hit the CC1 modwheel. Some folks might say that is not exactly the theoretically correct thing, but I find that in practice it works quite nicely and I get great dynamics out of the "Hollywood" strings at the same time as the others. It works in real time all the time, set it up and forget about it. Hairpins are a joy now!

All I do now is write with intuitive dynamic markings and the orchestral balance all comes out as desired and very realistic as is, I do hardly any tweeking at all in mix. I have been in heaven ever since.

[Jeff Wolverton]

Thank you for the info.

[wcreed51]

What utility program is it that you use?

[Migot]

Jeff,

Just say that VSL is both wonderful Library and Great tool plug in !

...nothing else like this.

Alain

[dshertz]

I discarded my copy of EWQL Platinum because of the indistinct sound that it has to my ear. I now favor libraries which have multiple mic positions because it make managing room resonance easier, and the voices can be more easily moved between solo and ensemble positions. I have not looked into East West's new Hollywood libraries because I have not forgiven them for their corporate behavior in the early days of Play. At that time, Play did not share resources well with other romplers. I don't know if that story has changed.

[wcreed51]

The EWQLSO license isn't transferable, either by sale or gift. Just an FYI.

[mrarnesen]

Just a quick question: Do EWQL SO work with Kontakt 5?