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Notion 4.....

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Re: Notion 4.....

Postby pcartwright » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:46 am

Surfwhammy wrote:I understand the apparent fact that for some folks it is vastly important to be able to fine-tune everything with custom rules, as well as to have preconfigured templates and rules for particular VSTi products and sound libraries, but as best as I have been able to determine this is something that already is possible in NOTION 3


This is simply not true. You can write simple rules for unsupported libraries, but you cannot differentiate rules for different instruments within a sampler without integration similar to that of GPO, EWQLSO, Mirsoslav and VSL. This makes writing rules for multiple libraries that share a sampler (i.e. kontakt libraries) impossible.

Also, libraries supported by Notion have instruments assigned by type. That is, Notion identifies the GPO piano as a keyboard instrument and applies certain rules automatically. Specifically, a glissando written for the GPO piano will only sound the white notes (like a real piano). This type of differentiation cannot take place in unsupported libraries at all - there is no rule that dictates this with the prules file.
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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby pcartwright » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:50 am

Surfwhammy wrote:some of the additional work that NOTION 3 does is done primarily because under the older version of VST it was the only practical way to do it, but I think this has changed with the release of VST 3.5.1, and this puts the authority and responsibility for this part of the work solely in the realm of the VSTi virtual instruments and sound libraries vendors, which I think is the most logical and practical way to do it, since among other things the VSTi virtual instruments and sound libraries folks have their own unique user interfaces, environments, tools, and so forth, really . . .


Uh, what?
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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby Surfwhammy » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:43 pm

pcartwright wrote:
Surfwhammy wrote:I understand the apparent fact that for some folks it is vastly important to be able to fine-tune everything with custom rules, as well as to have preconfigured templates and rules for particular VSTi products and sound libraries, but as best as I have been able to determine this is something that already is possible in NOTION 3


This is simply not true. You can write simple rules for unsupported libraries, but you cannot differentiate rules for different instruments within a sampler without integration similar to that of GPO, EWQLSO, Mirsoslav and VSL. This makes writing rules for multiple libraries that share a sampler (i.e. kontakt libraries) impossible.

Also, libraries supported by Notion have instruments assigned by type. That is, Notion identifies the GPO piano as a keyboard instrument and applies certain rules automatically. Specifically, a glissando written for the GPO piano will only sound the white notes (like a real piano). This type of differentiation cannot take place in unsupported libraries at all - there is no rule that dictates this with the prules file.


Generally, I consider you to be one of the resident experts on custom rules, so I basically agree with your observations in this respect . . .

However, I did a bit of what I call "scouting around" in the Mac OS X package for "NOTION 3. app", and there are some other files that look intriguing, where for example there is a "TechniquesList.xml" file that does a mapping of the various supported VSTi virtual instruments, as well as the "ntn3" (NOTION 3) instruments, and this is intriguing, but it is not something I plan to tweak . . .

There might not be a reasonably straightforward way to do it, but this does not preclude other strategies, and it is entirely possible that with the current version of NOTION 3 there literally is no way to do what Nikolaos (a.k.a., lillosnx) wants to do, but perhaps there is a way to do it via what I call a "workaround" . . .

Lots of FUN! :)
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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby Surfwhammy » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:11 pm

pcartwright wrote:
Surfwhammy wrote:some of the additional work that NOTION 3 does is done primarily because under the older version of VST it was the only practical way to do it, but I think this has changed with the release of VST 3.5.1, and this puts the authority and responsibility for this part of the work solely in the realm of the VSTi virtual instruments and sound libraries vendors, which I think is the most logical and practical way to do it, since among other things the VSTi virtual instruments and sound libraries folks have their own unique user interfaces, environments, tools, and so forth, really . . .


Uh, what?


The specific technologies that are relevant for VST 3.5.1 are grouped into what is called "VST Expression" by Steinberg, and the following link has an overview of VST Expression . . .

The latest version, VST Expression 2, is based on three core technologies: Note Expression, Expression Maps and VST Dynamics.


VST Expression (Steinberg)

One perspective on VST Expression and VST 3.5.1 is that these technologies enhance what can be done with MIDI, and these technologies exist, which is important . . .

Currently, it might be the case that the only company which supports this is Steinberg, specifically in Cubase 6.5 and its various HALion synthesizers, where HALion 4.5 is the current version, which is fine with me . . .

NOTION 3 only supports two general types of instruments internally (the N2 and N3 bundled instruments and VSTi virtual instruments), and this is the reason that I think it makes sense for NOTION 4 to support the current version of Steinberg's Virtual Studio Technology (VST), which at present is VST 3.5.1 . . .

As an example, VST Expressions makes it possible to play each note of a chord in a different way, which is an interesting concept that Steinberg suggests results in more realism or whatever . . .

Nevertheless, from a practical perspective it is quite unlikely that I will take the time to delve so deeply into individual note nuances, but this probably is not the case for everyone, because there are folks who, for example, want to sculpt every note played by a violin in great detail, and VST Expression looks to provide a way to do this . . .

The high-level perspective here in the sound isolation studio is that I like standards, and these are the three most relevant standards that make sense for NOTION 4 sometime in the not so distant future for whatever the current versions of Mac OS X and Windows happen to be:

(1) 64-bit application . . .

(2) 64-bit ReWire . . .

(3) VST 3.5.1 . . .

And there needs to be some type of 32-bit compatibility, at least so long as there are key VSTi virtual instruments and VST effects plug-ins that are not available in 64-bit flavors . . .

The only particularly troublesome aspect is the way folks get intimate access to being able to sculpt individual notes, and in this respect at least Steinberg has a standard (VST 3.5.1), which while not being perfect looks to be a huge leap forward, because based on my somewhat limited current understanding of VST 3.5.1, it appears that the controlling application (a.k.a., "host") is able to query the VSTi virtual instrument to request that it send its detailed information about key switches, and there also is an XML-based controller interface in VST 3.5.1 . . .

And from a different but nevertheless important perspective on the future, if Notion Music creates a NOTION Developer Program and exposes enough of NOTION internals via a NOTION Software Development Kit (SDK) to be useful for developers, then you probably could create some type of product, perhaps "sound sets" or whatever, and make enough money selling it through the NOTION App Store to be able to get a new Mac Pro . . .

I like the idea of companies like Apple, Native Instruments, Notion Music, and Propellerhead Software having stores where their customers can purchase add-on products created by 3rd party developers and verified and certified as being compatible and so forth by the the respective high-level companies, and in particular I like the idea of someone else doing all the payment processing, product delivering, and accounting work, where it is fine with me if they keep 30 percent for doing it and send me a check or make an electronic deposit every three months or whatever . . .

I can do everything myself, and I have done this in the past with self-published technical books, but it essentially consumes your life, and after a while it becomes all you do, which is the primary reason that I am quite happy not to have to mess with product fulfillment and all that stuff, and I think that 30 percent is fair and reasonable in that scenario, because I would rather have 70 percent and not need to mess with product fulfillment than to have 100 percent and have to do everything, and I am fine with the Notion Music charging a reasonable yearly fee for a NOTION Developer Program, where for example Apple currently charges $99 (US) for Mac OS X and $99 (US) for iOS developer program subscriptions per year, although there also is a free version that only requires registering . . .

Really! :)
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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby achambily » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:25 pm

Hope Notion 4 will be 64 bits to avoid memory limitations...
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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby DaddyO » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:30 pm

Admin wrote:
thorrild wrote:François & others,

At the risk of severe punishment, I wade into this thread:

I think it should be possible to let the developers develop, and to hold off on all these questions. We have been told several times that a new version is in the works and that it'll arrive sometime this summer. Well, the summer is still not over, and I imagine that the folks at Notion are reluctant to commit to any advance information as long as the product is not ready for release — and with good reason: Many things can change, even up to the last minute.

The new version is not going to arrive a moment sooner, even if you know how it will be made available, or at what price. I understand that the impatience — I, too, am impatient, but this thread is not helpful.

Best wishes,
Thorrild


Thanks for the comments Thorrild! I know that we are foaming at the mouth to talk about the release over here!! As you can imagine we have to hold off on releasing anything specific until it's actually released.

Just a little more patience on your end! We'll probably have some news within the next few weeks about release date and some features....sorry to sound vague about dates but I promise we are getting close!!

-Kyle


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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby wcreed51 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:40 pm

I'm hoping for more of an August song...
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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby TOSCANINI » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:03 pm

I love Notion software and App and i respect people working for Notion Music, but, it's alway's the same : "Amazing ! Soon ! Incredible ! You will see ! Very soon"... then we have to wait for weeks with absolutely no information at all.

Not a word on Notion 4, not a word on improvements of Notion App they talk about on facebook three weeks ago...
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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby Admin » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:33 pm

TOSCANINI wrote:I love Notion software and App and i respect people working for Notion Music, but, it's alway's the same : "Amazing ! Soon ! Incredible ! You will see ! Very soon"... then we have to wait for weeks with absolutely no information at all.

Not a word on Notion 4, not a word on improvements of Notion App they talk about on facebook three weeks ago...



I know it can sound like a broken record, but I ASSURE you that we're VERY close to manufacturing on N4:) As far as feature list we need to wait until it's officially released to comment:)
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Re: Notion 4.....

Postby wcreed51 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:46 pm

No, you don't need to wait. Most companies don't...
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