Rewire issues with Notion

[pcartwright]

Furthermore, I thought rewire problems were a known issue. I know I've submitted bug reports. There are also several threads dedicated to the subject:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=905
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1031&p=4203
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=700
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=222

[ulrik]

I've worked with rewire programs (from Reason to Reaper, Pro Tools to Sonar, Mac and Windows), and I know how to work through rewire problems via buffer sizes, audio configuration, etc. I've thrown every trick at the problem and I haven't been able to make it work, so I think it's fair to say that's it's time for Notion to step up on this issue.

Agree to 100%

Ulrik

[Surfwhammy]

I am using Notion on Mac Os 10.6.8 with Logic 64 bit (so no rewire) but tell me why all my DAW have problems with NOTION. Reaper is at 44100 with buffer size 1024. I am running 8 core mac pro with 24GB of Ram and 3T disk.

According to Apple, Logic Pro 9 works nicely with ReWire . . .

You can plug in any Audio Units software instrument or effect. And ReWire lets you run Logic Pro with specialized applications such as Reason and Live. Trigger and sequence your instruments from Logic Pro, route your signals directly into the Logic Pro mixer, and have everything running in perfect sync.

[SOURCE: Logic Pro 9 (Apple) ]

As noted in my previous post, I think that the problems you are having mostly are due to configuration, although there are a few eccentric behaviors in the various software . . .

I did a video of the "Shell.notion" piece that you posted, and the video shows the Notion 3 generated audio being recorded in Digital Performer 7.24 as soundbites via ReWire, where Digital Performer 7.24 is the ReWire host and Notion 3 is the ReWire slave . . .

[NOTE: I had to reduce the quality of the video to keep the file size in the reasonable range, since at the highest video quality the file would be huge. Nevertheless, the audio is good quality, since only the video is compressed, and I explained what I was doing in the video with voiceover, so it should not be difficult to find the various configuration settings and so forth . . . ]

"Shell.notion" -- Digital Performer 7.24, Notion 3, ReWire -- Windows Media Video (WMV, 21.9MB, approximately 16 minutes and 18 seconds)

Everything in your "Shell.notion" score looked fine, except for the volume slider levels in the Notion 3 Mixer, since a few of them were above 0dB, which I generally avoid doing . . .

[NOTE: If a sound sample has a low level but I want it to have a higher level, then I run it through one of the VST plug-in components from T-RackS 3 Deluxe, which works nicely, and it makes the mixing board sliders easier to manage once I get the Notion 3 generated audio into Digital Performer 7.24, where to be specific I might do a quick experiment in Notion 3 to see how the VST plug-in will work, but before doing the ReWire step I remove or disable all the VST plug-ins in Notion 3, and I also set all the Notion 3 Mixer volume levels to 0dB. Once the ReWire step is completed, then I apply the various VST plug-ins to the tracks in Digital Performer 7.24 that need a bit of boosting or constraining, as the case might be, which also includes adding reverberation, echoes, and so forth. Digital Performer 7.24 has 32-bit application workspace limitations, but the difference is that in contrast to Notion 3, it is not doing the VSTi virtual instruments, hence there is more available space, hence I do the VST plug-in effects in Digital Performer 7.24 rather than in Notion 3 . . . ]

COMMENTS

I am not asserting or suggesting that there are no problems with ReWIre, but I am stating that it works nicely on the Mac with Digital Performer and Notion 3 once you discover the rules and follow them diligently . . .

The MOTU folks have been doing Mac digital audio software for a long time, but then so have the Apple folks, which leads me to expect that Logic Pro 9 should do ReWire smoothly, although at present I cannot prove it . . .

From a Computer Science perspective, it is very important to understand that there is a lot of stuff happening in the background, so there are plenty of opportunities for eccentric behaviors to occur . . .

When Notion 3 is using IK Multimedia virtual instruments, the IK Multimedia virtual instruments are running in the background and doing a lot of highly intensive processing, and it is not just one instance of a single IK Multimedia virtual instrument . . .

Notion 3 is managing the visual interface, which when playing a song involves doing a lot of graphic work to put the score into motion, and there also is the work that the Notion 3 Mixer and any effects VST plug-ins are doing . . .

When you are doing a ReWire session, there is all the ReWire stuff happening, as well, but there also is all the stuff the DAW application is doing, and so forth and so on, which overall is a lot of stuff . . .

From my perspective, the reality is that no matter how well digital audio software works on a computer, at some point it becomes virtually trivial to overwhelm the computer, which also is the case with everything involved in recording, mixing, and mastering, but so what . . .

So what!

Les Paul was doing layered recording in the early-1950s using 1-track analog magnetic tape machines, and a few years later when tape machines with more than one track appeared, folks used the same technique to create even deeper and richer layers, which by the time the Beatles started working with George Martin mapped to 2-track analog tape machines and layering, which in a few years moved to 4-track analog tape machines and more layering, and so forth and so on . . .

"How High The Moon" (Les Paul and Mary Ford) -- Alistair Cooke's "Omnibus" Television Show (1953) -- YouTube music video

So, instead of complaining about only having 1-track, 2-track, 4-track, 8-track, and so forth tape machines the smart folks devised strategies for working within the limitations of the available state-of-the-art equipment, which is the strategy that makes the most sense to me in the digital audio universe . . .

I can have 500 to 1,000 tracks for a song, but I have to do it in layers . . .

The ony disadvantage with layering is that you need to do a lot of advance planning, but this advance planning can be simplified by developing a "system" or "formula" for doing elaborately orchestrated songs, where the most important rule is that you want to define and create the primary infrastructure early, since it is not so easy to make infrastructure changes later in the layering process, although there are ways to make certain types of infrastructure changes that are not so difficult . . .

[NOTE: For reference, I am using "infrastructure" for things like the tempo or beats per minute (BPM) and the layout of the song (verse, chorus, bridge, refrain, interlude, and so forth), as well as the reference tuning pitch and a few other basic things . . . ]

If you are using a combination of virtual instruments and real instruments, then it is best to establish Notion 3 as the foundation, since playing real instruments and singing to a Notion 3 generated percussion tempo makes it very easy to switch from working with music notation and virtual instruments in Notion 3 to working with real instruments and singing in the DAW application, because everything is synchronized and tuned to the Notion 3 tuning references and tempo . . .

It might take a few hundred hours to do a song with a lot of instruments and singing that runs for 3 minutes and 30 seconds, but it takes that much time no matter how it is done, really . . .

Really!

P. S. It is important to have the current version of ReWire, which will be the case if you are using Reason 5 (Propellerhead Software), but if you do not have Reason 5, you can download and install the Reason 5 demo, since it installs the current version of ReWire, as well . . .

[Surfwhammy]

As I was told 1 year ago I unwrapped all my rearsal marks (quite annoyed by this operation). With the click on I can hear NOTION going behind almost immediately, then at bar 40 all goes crazy to catch up. It is one year since the last time I used NOTION because all of this is quite boring and to get it work is so many work arounds that it is easier to deal with articulation manually in Logic, at least I can have all the channels I want and all in synch.

After listening to "Shell.notion" for a while, I am trying to determine the problem you appear to be having, if there is a problem . . .

I like the piece, and my impression at present is that there are a few places or sections that might benefit from being played by a real orchestra that has a perceptive conductor, but those places or sections might just as easily be smoothed with a bit of thoughtful producing, mixing, and mastering . . .

Getting the "Shell.notion" score recorded in Digital Performer 7.24 as soundbites via ReWire was very easy to do, as demonstrated in the video that I posted earlier, and it actually took considerably less time to do than it did to explain in words in the video what I was doing . . .

For reference, I have a Digital Performer project that I call "DP-25-Track-N3-ReWire-Project", and it has 25 stereo tracks that are preconfigured for doing ReWire with Notion 3. I use it as a template, where I open the project but then do a "Save As", which makes a copy of everything and lets me give the project a song specific name, which takes approximately 30 seconds to do . . .

Then, I enable the "Rec" and "Input" buttons for the tracks I want to record via ReWire, followed by opening the Notion 3 score and doing the ReWire channel configurations for the Notion 3 tracks that I want to get into Digital Performer, which takes a minute or so, since it typically takes more time to load the various IK Multimedia virtual instruments than it does to initialize a Digital Performer project . . .

Checking the volume levels in Notion 3; disabling any VST plug-ins; and inserting the four blank measures takes a minute or two, and then everything is ready to do . . .

Overall, start to finish, I can begin with the "Shell.notion" score; get it prepared for doing the ReWire step and close the Notion 3 score; do the Digital Performer initial project creation using the pseudo-template; open the ReWire prepared score; and then record the soundbites, which takes somewhere in the range of 5 to 10 minutes, total . . .

And as far as I have been able to determine, there are no problems with respect to ReWire . . .

This is the Digital Performer 7.24 output for the piece, which is converted in iTunes to MP3 format using a custom high-resolution setting . . .

"Shell" -- MP3 (4.8MB, 275-kbps [VBR], approximately 2 minutes and 24 seconds)

OBSERVATIONS

One of the more curious things I started noticing a few years ago when I really focused on "click" tracks and digital metronomes is that it is very difficult to set a highly accurate digital metronome to the tempo of most popular songs, at least in the genres I like, since inevitably there are sections where the musicians play a bit faster, although they get back on-tempo soon thereafter, so it is more a matter of matching the digital metronome to the overall tempo so that everything is on-tempo at the start, middle, and end of the song . . .

And while I am using a combination of experience and intuition, hence cannot prove this, I am reasonably certain that all those songs where recorded with "click" tracks and reference tuning tracks, since for musical groups that have hit songs, this is the way it is done, and for a variety of reasons it is not an optional thing, so while the musicians and singers might suggest that they do everything spontaneously in a party atmosphere in the studio, the reality is that the record company executives are focused on the business aspects, one of which is the reality that standards exist for good reasons, which in turn maps to using "click" tracks and keeping the instruments properly tuned . . .

It might be a matter of professional studios having more precise digital metronomes than the ones I have been able to find, where for example instead of setting the tempo to 182 beats per minute (which I think explains the name of the musical group "Blink 182", although perhaps not), they are able to set the tempo to 182.182 beats per minute, which at present I can do in Digital Performer but cannot do with any of the digital metronomes I have, hence if I try to match the tempo, I am hearing a digital metronome at 182 BPM playing along with a song that actually is 182.182 BPM, and this will be synchronized for a while, but then sooner or later the digital metronome is a bit slow, since after five minutes the digital metronome is off by nearly a complete beat, which begins to be discernible much sooner . . .

Or it might be simply a matter of the musical group starting on-tempo with the "click" track but then speeding-up a bit, followed by getting back on-tempo with the "click" track they are hearing in their studio headphones . . .

The reality is that musicians with a keen sense of timing can discern tempo and phrase changes in the range of 25 to 50 milliseconds, although not so much in an immediately conscious way . . .

So, perhaps it is a matter of adjusting the tempo a bit more precisely, where 118 BPM might work better than 120 BPM or some other tempo?

At the moment, it feels a tiny bit fast at 120 BPM, but this is (a) without making any changes to the various instrument levels other than to peg everything at 0dB and (b) without doing any specific instrument enhancements with various effects and dynamics processors . . .

QUESTION: Does the MP3 file sound generally correct based on what you want to achieve for the piece with respect to the tempo and timing of the various instrumental parts?

In other words, getting the Notion 3 generated audio recorded as soundbites in Digital Performer 7.24 via ReWire was very easy to do, and as best as I can determine there are no problems in this regard, so I am wondering if whatever problem you are perceiving actually has anything to do with ReWire . . .

There is a lot of stuff happening in the piece, and there certainly are things that a skilled conductor might do with a real orchestra to add more expression or passion to the piece, but I am wondering whether this has anything to do with ReWire?

If I were conducting, there are a few places where I probably would do a some expressive tempo changes from the following list, although I have no idea at the moment which ones I might do . . .

Accelerando
Allargando
Calando
Doppio movimento
Meno mosso
Mosso
Più mosso
Precipitando
Rallentando
Ritardando
Ritenuto
Rubato
Stretto
Stringendo

SUMMARY

As best as I can determine, the MP3 file (see above) accurately reflects what the music notation produces with the specific Miroslav Philharmonik (IK Multimedia) virtual instruments in Notion 3, and getting the Notion 3 generated audio recorded in Digital Performer 7.24 as soundbites via ReWire was very easy to do . . .

After listening to the piece for a while, there are a few places that I think can benefit from a bit more expression or something, but I think this is more a matter of things that a skilled conductor does with a real orchestra of skilled musicians . . .

I am curious to know if this assessment is accurate, since ultimately this is something the composer needs to determine, and in this instance I am not the composer . . .

Thanks!

[Surfwhammy]

I did an experimental mix for "Shell.notion", and I adjusted the volume levels and panning locations on the various instruments, as well as added a bit of reverberation to a few instruments . . .

I generally like a lot of bass, so I enhanced the contrabass and cello with the EQP-1A program equalizer, which is excellent for deepening bass instruments and adding a bit of vacuum tube blur . . .

For the viola, violin, and all the other instruments, except the horn, I used the Opto Compressor to bring them forward in the mix, and for the horn I used EQP-1A program equalizer, since it also works nicely for a bit of vintage presence and vacuum tube blur . . .

The string section is nice, but it was on the left side only, so I cloned it and the spread it on both sides, which moved the pulsating bits more to top center and smoothed them a bit. I have not looked at the music notation in much detail, but it appears that what I am calling the "string section" actually is polyphonic, since there are two different things happening, one of which is a sustained string section thing but the other of which is the pulsating bits. From a producing and mixing perspective, it would be easier if these were separated into two different stereo tracks, which makes it easier to work with them separately . . .

I really like harps, so I "pumped" the harp to make it more dominant, since it carries the melody for a while . . .

This is the MP3 for this experimental mix, and it is more of a Beatles style mix than a traditional orchestral mix . . .

[NOTE: This is a headphone mix, but I might do a loudspeaker mix later. The stereo image is a tiny bit skewed to the left, but I should be able to fix it when I do a loudspeaker mix, since this usually is a phasing issue, although I might need to clone of of the instrument tracks to get a more balanced spread. And since there is considerably more articulation and dynamics in the actual instruments, getting the volume levels and panning locations adjusted tends to smooth and to give more dynamic presence to the expressive tempo movements. And to be as clear as possible, I made no changes to the Notion 3 score. All the enhancements are done in Digital Performer 7.24 with various T-RackS 3 Deluxe (IK Multimedia) processors and CSR Classik Studio Reverb (IK Multimedia). For reference, I refer to this as a "Beatles" style mix, because increasing the volume levels of the various instruments using compressors and so forth is similar to the technique of placing microphones in very close proximity to instruments, which is a technique that George Martin and the Abbey Road audio engineers pioneered for songs like "Eleanor Rigby" and "Yesterday", apparently to the great annoyance of the orchestral and symphonic musicians . . . ]

"Shell" -- Surfwhammy REV 1 -- MP3 (4.7MB, 267-kbps [VBR], approximately 2 minutes and 25 seconds)

There is a lot of stuff happening in this piece, and there is a lot of counterpoint and all that stuff, so doing experimental mixes is one of the ways I make sense of a song when there is a lot of stuff happening, which in part is based on the rule that once everything is recorded you really need to listen to it for a while over and over to discover all the subtle stuff, some of which works better when it is made more obvious, which in turn is based on the idea that lots of things can be enhanced by the creative use of signal processors and special effects . . .

Lots of FUN!

P. S. Based on this experiment, I am inclined to suggest that the perceived problem has nothing to do with ReWire, at least when the DAW application is Digital Performer 7.24, which supports Notion 3 and ReWire very nicely, but since I am not the composer, all I can do is express my opinion, really . . .

Really!

P. P. S. A choreographer and ballet troupe could have a lot of FUN with this piece!

[pcartwright]

As best as I can determine, the MP3 file (see above) accurately reflects what the music notation produces with the specific Miroslav Philharmonik (IK Multimedia) virtual instruments in Notion 3, and getting the Notion 3 generated audio recorded in Digital Performer 7.24 as soundbites via ReWire was very easy to do . . .

Surfwhammy,

I'm glad you were able to accurately describe how to integrate Digital Performer and Notion via rewire; however, most of us don't use Digital Performer. In my mp3 examples (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1648#p7157), there is clearly an issue with rewire sync between Sonar and Notion. Considering that Notion was packaged with Sonar for a while, I would have thought that the two would have worked seamlessly together.

I've been a Notion fan and even defender for a while now, but it's time to fix these bugs. It's been made pretty clear that there were still rewire issues (I've personally posted these examples before, submitted bug reports, and emailed Notion staff directly about this issue), so it's very disheartening to learn that the tech support team is unaware of these problems.

In my studio, as of today:

I can use Sonar with Reason via rewire without a hitch
I can use Sonar with Reaper via rewire without a hitch
I can use Reaper with Reason via rewire without a hitch

I have sync issues the moment I try to integrate Notion with Sonar, Reaper, or Reason. I think it's clear what the common denominator is here.

I must also echo that recommending a different DAW and/or OS is not a suitable response for this situation.

[Surfwhammy]

I'm glad you were able to accurately describe how to integrate Digital Performer and Notion via rewire; however, most of us don't use Digital Performer.

I was puzzled by some of the replies, but it makes a bit of sense now . . .

Specifically, I was replying to Diego's posts about Notion 3 and ReWire on the Mac, but I think that other folks are replying to the topic title ("Rewire issues with Notion"), which is more general and can apply to the Mac or Windows . . .

There is a possibility that I can provide a bit of help for Diego's problem, but there is not much I can do for the folks in the Windows universe, although Boot Camp 4.0 supports Windows 7, hence I could run Windows 7 on the Mac Pro, but for the cost of the Windows 7 license I could get other stuff that for me would be more useful, so I do not envision running Windows 7 on the Mac Pro here in the sound isolation studio, at least on my dime . . .

In my studio, as of today:

I can use Sonar with Reason via rewire without a hitch
I can use Sonar with Reaper via rewire without a hitch
I can use Reaper with Reason via rewire without a hitch

I have sync issues the moment I try to integrate Notion with Sonar, Reaper, or Reason. I think it's clear what the common denominator is here.

For those folks who might not be so familiar with Reason 5 (Propellerhead Software), (a) Reason 5 only functions as a ReWire slave, not a ReWire host controller, and (b) Reason 5 is not a VST plug-in or VSTi instrument, hence cannot be a virtual instrument or effects processor in Notion 3, which is useful to know . . .

I did some experiments on the Mac Pro with Notion 3 as the ReWire host controller and Reason 5 as the ReWire slave, and Notion 3 has no problems controlling the transport, but I saw no added value in pursuing it in more detail, since for what I am doing it makes no sense . . .

However, it does make sense to export an instrument track from Notion 3 as a MIDI file and then to import the MIDI file to Reason 5, since I can record the Reason 5 generated audio in Digital Performer 7.24 as soundbites via ReWire when Digital Performer 7.24 is the ReWire host controller and Reason 5 is the ReWire slave, but in this specific scenario Notion 3 is not involved and is not running . . .

This is important in my "system" or "formula", because this makes it possible for Notion 3 to be the foundation for everything, even though the relationship with Reason 5 requires using an exported MIDI file as an intermediary, which is manual step . . .

In other words, if I need to use one of the synthesizers in Reason 5, I can create a virtual instrument in Notion 3 and hear the notes interacting with the other instruments in the Notion 3 score in a general way, which is all I need to do the music composition work. When the part is composed, I can export it as a MIDI file and then close Notion 3, followed by opening Reason 5 and importing the exported MIDI file, at which time I can use the imported MIDI information to play the Reason 5 synthesizers while I am adjusting everything. When that is done, I save the Reason 5 project; close Reason 5; and then start Digital Performer 7.24, followed by doing the ReWire configuration; starting Reason 5; and then controlling Reason 5 with Digital Performer 7.24 as the ReWire host controller . . .

I tested this scenario, which works very nicely, and after doing it a few times, it becomes easier to do and does not take a long time . . .

Effectively the virtual instrument in Notion 3 is acting as a surrogate for whatever will be done in Reason 5, and this is consistent with the Notion 3 score being the foundation for everything, which is great . . .

Great!

There are some nice features in Reason 5, and I like the synthesizer interfaces a lot, but after doing a bit of reading and more experiments I discovered that I can do what I need to do with the various IK Multimedia synthesizers using music notation, which is more direct and considerably easier most of the time, although there probably are some things that are best done via the surrogate Notion 3 instrument and exported MIDI strategy . . .

The only practical help I can provide for the specific scenario where folks want to use Notion 3 with Sonar via ReWire is to observe that Propellerhead Software has a set of instructions on using Reason 5 with Sonar, which might provide some clues to using Notion 3 with Sonar . . .

ReWire Tutorial for Sonar (Propellerhead Software)

The Propellerhead ReWire tutorials are helpful, and the tutorial on Digital Performer provided the information I needed to discover how to get Notion 3 properly configured as a ReWire slave when Digital Performer is the ReWire host controller . . .

MOTU also has some instructions on ReWire, but they are not so detailed as the Propellerhead Software instructions . . .

I have been pondering the idea of becoming a third-party ReWIre developer but mostly since this appears to be the only way to get the actual ReWire API and programming documentation, since I currently have no plans to develop a ReWIre product . . .

Doing it as a company looks to be entirely too much of a hassle, but I might be able to do it based on writing a technical book if it is not too involved . . .

Conceptually, I think that ReWire is brilliant, so I am curious to discover how it works internally at the programming level, really . . .

Really!

I must also echo that recommending a different DAW and/or OS is not a suitable response for this situation.

With a few caveats, I have no problems with this, but as an example of a valid exception, GarageBand (Apple) only supports controlling the transport via ReWire, so on the Mac if you need to do anything else via ReWire, then the Apple solution requires using Logic Express or Logic Pro (which now is part of Logic Studio) . . .

There are other Mac solutions for the DAW, where Digital Performer is one of the solutions . . .

From my perspective, the key bit of information is determining whether a particular DAW application does what one needs to do, and overall this is not the least bit general, since there are a lot of factors and variables . . .

For example, what happens when a DAW application does not support ReWIre?

If you need to do ReWire activities, then I suggest there is no option other than getting a different DAW application . . .

Similarly, what about folks who are running Linux or another operating system for which there is no version of NOTION?

Again, in this scenario, the only practical solution when you need to use NOTION is to switch to an operating system platform on which NOTION runs . . .

If Diego tells me that the MP3 versions of "Shell" that I did in Digital Performer 7.24 are accurate with respect to timing, synchronizing, and so forth, then Digital Performer 7.24 provides the necessary ReWire infrastructure to be a solution, which might be useful for Diego, since I can provide very detailed help when Digital Performer 7.24 is used, and it is very easy to do, for sure . . .

For sure!

However, I am not convinced that Logic Pro 9 is unable to do ReWire or that Logic Pro 9 has difficulties being the ReWire host controller in the scenario where Notion 3 is the ReWIre slave . . .

This is the link to the online Logic Pro 9 user manual at the Apple support website, where it specifically is the section on "Working with ReWire Applications" . . .

Logic Pro 9 User Manual: "Working with ReWire Applications" (Apple)

As I explained in several posts, it took me nearly a month to discover how to get Digital Performer working correctly as the ReWire host controller with Notion 3 as the ReWIre slave, and there were a few times when nothing was making any sense, but I kept at it and eventually discovered how to do it, so I certainly understand how it can be very frustrating, but the fact of the matter is that Notion 3 works very smoothly with Digital Performer when you follow the rules, some of which like the four empty measures at the start of the Notion 3 score are a bit odd, but so what . . .

So what!

On the other hand, if Logic Pro 9 does not work as the ReWire host controller in the scenario where Notion 3 is the ReWire slave, then Logic Pro 9 is of no value to me, and as best as I can determine there is no demo version of Logic Pro 9, so I am not certain that having a "direction" feature for the "panning" control of a stereo track and the DAW application being 64-bits is worth spending $500 if it precludes being able to control Notion 3 via ReWire . . .

Being able to get the Notion 3 generated audio recorded as soundbites in Digital Performer 7.24 via ReWire is central to my "system" or "formula", and it is not optional . . .

Pondering the future, it might be worth $500 to do the experiment with Logic Pro 9 (Logic Studio) if I decide to write a technical book about digital music production on the Mac, but it depends, since there are some very enticing VST plug-ins that look to be more useful at present for what I need to do than experimenting with Logic Pro 9, because I already have a solution for controlling Notion 3 via ReWIre, for sure . . .

For sure!

[pcartwright]

If Diego tells me that the MP3 versions of "Shell" that I did in Digital Performer 7.24 are accurate with respect to timing, synchronizing, and so forth, then Digital Performer 7.24 provides the necessary ReWire infrastructure to be a solution, which might be useful for Diego, since I can provide very detailed help when Digital Performer 7.24 is used, and it is very easy to do, for sure . . .

If Notion's rewire capabilities only function correctly with digital performer, then it is most certainly an issue with Notion's implementation of rewire. Again, suggesting that a user switches DAWs/OS is not useful. It would be better to switch to Finale with its MIDI timecode sync or Sibelius with it's limited rewire capabilities. You sacrifice Notion's ease of use and sounds, but it's essential for projects that require precise synchronization (I'm currently having to use Sonar's dismal notation system for a series of commercials that I'm writing music for).

As I explained in several posts, it took me nearly a month to discover how to get Digital Performer working correctly as the ReWire host controller with Notion 3 as the ReWIre slave, and there were a few times when nothing was making any sense, but I kept at it and eventually discovered how to do it, so I certainly understand how it can be very frustrating, but the fact of the matter is that Notion 3 works very smoothly with Digital Performer when you follow the rules, some of which like the four empty measures at the start of the Notion 3 score are a bit odd, but so what . . . )

Again, taking months to figure out integration of rewire is an indication of a problem (especially when so many of us have used it successfully with other programs without such problems). I've worked with rewire for a very long time and have run into my fair share of compatibility issues, but I've never not been able to get it to work after an hour or two. I can certainly get Notion and Reaper to sync via rewire (Reaper as host only), but I've never been able to write a tempo or time signature change without breaking the sync. I've never been able to get Sonar and Notion to sync at all (again, see this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1648#p7157)

Tell me this, have you tried to write tempo or time signatures changes in any of your songs/pieces? Try it and let us know if Notion behaves as expected (preferably in a post of 500 words or less).

[colombod]

CAn you post the Pro Tools session that is working, by the way, the worst happens after more than a minute, around bar 39 all is unacceptable. I will call Brian but what if is another 40 minutes phone call like 1 year ago where I only get tons and tons of work around and details the are not clearly reported on documentation? Because if so many people are struggling to get Notion to work ok via rewire the company should remove the Rewire logo or explain all the details on how to get ti working with at least the most common DAWS!!!! Calling that number is not free from UK ( I think) and it will be a quite expensive fee for work around on a software not updates for a year, don't you think??

Tell me exactly what to do with rewire in protools to get this working because I can synch perfectly Protools and any other thing I have, but Notion looses time.

[Brian]

Hello,

This is Brian from NOTION Music. Troubleshooting ReWire problems is often times very difficult because of the amount of variables involved. As always, please feel free to use the forum for any topics that you seem fit. I just ask that if you would like your ReWire issues resolved, please send me an email at support@notionmusic.com so that I can take them one at a time and keep up with all of your information in an organized ticket. In the email, please give me the following information:

1. Name of your DAW

2. Operating System

3. What audio card are you using?

4. What version of NOTION are you running?

If we need to talk over the phone to resolve your issue, then normally I will ask you for your number and call you on our dime. Let's start with an email and if we need to talk, I will call you. I will keep a close eye out for your email. Thank you for all of your patience.

Best Regards,