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EQ plug-in

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Re: EQ plug-in

Postby Surfwhammy » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:56 am

geebo2b wrote:Thanks Lot of good info here. Very detailed so I am going to have to take time with it. I don't have Rewire, so I will look into that and possibly try to upgrade to DP7 though it sounds like DP 6 will be fine. I certainly don't have the a Mac 8core Pro..I have an Intel Imac core duo..so.. I hope this will work for me. I am assuming that recording soundbites into rewire will make it fairly easy to align all the traks so that they are in sync. Since I dont have rewire, I guess there will be somewhat of a learning curve for this.

Thnks, I am off now to check out rewire.

P.S. Does reWire have all the info needed to record the notion traks into soundbytes?? I probably won't know how to do this at the outset. So where will I look in ordeer to learn how to export traks of Notion as soundbytes?


Glad to help! :)

This is the Propellerhead Software overview of ReWIre:

[NOTE: The MOTU folks suggested that one way to ensure that you have the latest version of ReWire is to download the Reason 5 demo for the Mac. Reason 5 is interesting, and I purchased it later, but Reason 5 is not a VSTi instrument, so using it with Notion 3 requires a somewhat strange series of activities, which works and is described in another of my posts to this FORUM. In contrast, all the IK Multimedia virtual instruments are VSTi instruments, and they work very nicely with Notion 3 . . . ]

ReWire (Propellerhead Software)

If you have Digital Performer 6, then you already have everything you need, so it is just a matter of learning how to use some new technologies, which is where the rules I discovered over the past year will be very helpful . . .

(1) ReWire is a technology developed by the fine folks at Propellerhead Software, and it licensed by them for use in digital music applications . . .

The high-level overview of ReWire is that it is an interapplication communication protocol that enables one application to communicate with another application for the specific purposes of controlling audio transports (the various VCR buttons), synchronizing, and exchanging audio . . .

In a ReWire scenario, one application is the ReWire host controller, which in this instance will be Digital Performer, and another application is the ReWire slave, which in this instance will be Notion 3 . . .

Digital Performer (MOTU) supports ReWire, and Notion 3 supports ReWire . . .

(2) The various ReWIre supporting files should be on your Mac, but if doing an experiment reveals that the ReWire supporting files are not there, one way to get them is to download and install the demo version of Reason 5 (Propellerhead Software), since its installation installs the current version of ReWire, as well . . .

(3) Digital Performer 6 supports ReWire, and it was the version I was using when I first started trying to make sense of ReWire. I had a few problems, so thinking that it might have been due to not having the current version of Digital Performer, I upgraded to Digital Performer 7, but the problems continued, and after talking with MOTU technical support the general observation was that it was not a problem with Digital Performer and that DP6 works just as well with ReWire as DP7, but I had already done the upgrade, and I like the new color themes of DP7, which as best as I can determine pretty much is the major difference in DP6 and DP7, although there are are few additional improvements in DP7 that are nice, so I am happy with the upgrade . . .

(4) The order in which application are started is very important with when working in ReWire mode, and it required a lot of experiments to discover all the rules, which are a bit strange but simplify very nicely . . .

(5) Basically, I run one application at a time unless I specifically am doing ReWire, so for example when I am composing in Notion 3, I only run Notion 3. I do not have Digital Performer running, and I do not have Reason 5 running, so only Notion 3 is running when I am composing in Notion 3 . . .

Similarly, when I am mixing and applying effects in Digital Performer, it is the only application that is running. Notion 3 is not running, and Reason 5 is not running . . .

So, when I am doing application specific work, I only run the specific application, and this works very nicely . . .

However, when it is time to get the Notion 3 generated audio into Digital Performer, the first thing I do is quit all applications, so that nothing is running. Then I first start Digital Performer and load its project, which makes Digital Performer the ReWire host controller, since it started first. Next, I start Notion 3, and open the score that I want to record in Digital Performer via ReWire as soundbites . . .

When I am finished with the ReWire recording, I close Notion 3 first and then close Digital Performer, and this is necessary because the applications are communicating regularly, so the ReWire slave closing signals that the ReWire conversation is terminated, which is the correct way to terminate the ReWire conversation, and Digital Performer will not let you close it while Notion 3 is open, so if you want to close Digital Performer, you first need to close Notion 3 . . .

(6) When Notion 3 is running by itself, if you click on "NOTION" at the top-left of the screen just to the right of the Apple icon, you will find a menu item named "Preferences", which you will click. On one of the tabs, there will be an option labeled "Enable ReWire", which you will check. This tells Notion 3 that you are going to use it in a ReWire scenario, and it it OK to leave this option checked all the time . . .

(7) ReWire uses audio "channels" to exchange audio between the ReWire slave and the ReWire host controller, so in Notion 3 you will set the "Output" for each track in the Notion 3 Mixer to a "channel pair" when you are ready to do the ReWire step . . .

In my testing, I had problems with single-digit channel pairs, so I only use double-digit channel pairs in Notion 3, which maps to the lowest channel pair being "Channels 11-12" . . .

And this is the same way I do it in Digital Performer, where you create a stereo track and assign its input to the respective Notion 3 channel pair . . .

The sequence on this is very important, and in some respects it is a bit automagical (since of course it is a Mac and stuff just works) . . .

Once you set the "Enable ReWire" option in Notion 3; save the Notion 3 score; and close Notion 3, when you subsequently start Digital Performer, suddenly Digital Performer knows automagically that there are 32 Notion 3 channel pairs, which is pretty cool, especially since Notion 3 is not running at this time . . .


For example, consider that you have three instruments in a Notion 3 score (Violin, Cello, Contrabass) and that you want to get the Notion 3 generated audio recorded in Digital Performer via ReWire as soundbites . . .

(7.1) Close all running applications . . .

(7.2) Start Notion 3 and then set the "Output" for each of the three individual instrument tracks in the Notion 3 Mixer so that the output channel pair for the Violin track is "Channels 11-12;, the output channel pair for the Cello track is "Channels 13-14"; and the output channel pair for the Contrabass track is "Channels 15-16" . . .

You can leave everything else set to "Master" . . .

[NOTE: The only strange and somewhat annoying aspect of this is that once you set the output for a track to a channel pair, you no longer hear the track in the Notion 3 Mixer, since the generated audio for the track is sent to ReWire, so when you are working solely in Notion 3, you have to switch the output for tracks back to "Master" so that you can hear what you are doing, but after doing this a billion times, you discover how to do it quickly even though it is an obsessive-compulsive user-interface activity that would have made Howard Hughes' day. The reality here in the sound isolation studio is that I worked in a warehouse for several years putting individual price stickers on tubes of Crest toothpaste, and I put price stickers on the tubes of Crest toothpaste one a time over and over somewhere in the range of 100 million times, so doing something 10 or 20 times is not a big deal for me. Personally, I think the smarter user-interface design provides a way to save and load ReWire channel assignments and a way to set all the tracks to "Master", but so what. The fact that there is no smart way to do this provides the clue that nobody actually did a lot of testing when ReWire was added. And the same thing applies to the way Solo and Mute buttons work, which also happens in Digital Performer, which again provides the clue that none of the software engineers actually use their programs, which is fine with me, since I tend to be a gracious fellow . . . ]

(7.3) Set all the volume control sliders to 0dB in the Notion 3 Mixer, since 0dB works best for Digital Performer and gets good levels . . .

(7.4) Disable or remove any VST effects plug-ins you might be using, and generally I also disable the Notion 3 Reverb, since you can add effects in Digital Performer, but you cannot remove effects when they are present in the raw soundbites . . .

(7.5) Insert four blank or empty measures at the beginning of the Notion 3 score, and then save the Notion 3 score and then close and exit Notion 3 . . .

[NOTE: You need four blank or empty measures at the start of the Notion 3 score to make ReWire happy. I have a few guesses on why this is necessary, but regardless it works. Otherwise, moving the transport to the start of the first measure via Digital Performer will cause DP to lock-up and Notion 3 to go into La-La Land, so you always start the transport at the beginning of the fifth measure when using Digital Performer to control Notion 3 via ReWire. I worked on making sense of this for three days and drank about 5 pounds of coffee, but eventually adding four blank or empty measures and always starting no earlier than the beginning of the fifth measure got everything working very nicely . . . ]

(7.6) Start Digital Performer and if you do not already have a project, then create a new project and save the new project . . .

(7.7) Create three new stereo tracks in the DIgital Performer project and name then "Violin", "Cello", and "Contrabass", respectively . . .

(7.8) Set the "Input" for each of the three tracks to the matching Notion 3 track output channel pairs, so that the "Violin" track in Digital Performer will have as its input the "Channels 11-12" pair, and so forth, respectively . . .

(7.9) Save the Digital Performer project, and then set both the Input and Record buttons for each of the three tracks . . .

(7.10) Now you can start Notion 3 and open the score that has the Violin, Cello, and Contrabass, but do not mess with the transport at this time . . .

(7.11) You need to have Digital Performer set to display measures at the top right of its time and measure display, and you want to set the measure value to "5|1|000", which is the start of the first beat of the fifth measure. This positions the Notion 3 score at the beginning of the fifth measure which is where the song actually starts, since in an earlier step you inserted four empty or blank measures, which is very important . . .

(7.12) Now you can click on the "Record" button to start recording the Notion 3 generated audio as soundbites in Digital Performer, but you only want to record for about 5 seconds, at which time you will press the "Stop" button and then move the transport back to "5|1|000", followed by clicking on the "Record" button again, where now the Digital Performer and other buffers are loaded with look-ahead sounds or whatever, and this time you will record the entire song . . .

(7.13) When you are at the end of the song, you can stop recording; save the Digital Performer project; and then close Notion 3, followed by doing whatever you want to do in Digital Performer, since at this point it is the only thing running, but you will need to clear the "Input" and "Record" buttons for the individual tracks first . . .

If you do not hear any audio, it is because you forgot to clear the "Input" button, since setting the "Input" button for a track tells it to "listen" to the ReWire channel, but there is no ReWire slave because you closed Notion 3, and you want to work with the soundbite rather than to "listen" to a ReWire channel . . .

COMMENTS

If you are reasonably proficient in the Digital Performer user-interface, then all this stuff will make sense, but if not I can provide a bit more detail with some screen captures . . .

This can appear to be vastly complex, but after you do it a few times, it is very easy, and it is becomes second nature . . .

In some respects, it might be nice if it were not necessary to stop and start the applications so that they can be run separately with nothing else running, but the reality is that ReWire is an interapplication technology, so if you only want to work with one application without activating the ReWIre stuff, then run them one at a time, except when you are ready to do the Notion 3 to Digital Performer ReWire step . . .

Reason 5 only works as a ReWire slave, so it is possible to start Digital Performer first (making it the ReWire host controller) and then to start Notion 3 (making it a ReWIre slave), followed by starring Reason 5 (making it a second ReWire slave), but there is so much stuff happening all at once that there is no added value to doing this . . .

So, the only time I run two applications is in the scenario where (a) I start Digital Performer first and then start Notion 3 or (b) I start Digital Performer first and then start Reason 5 . . .

This works, and it does not lock-up Digital Performer or require rebooting the Mac . . .

And there is more information on all this stuff specifically for Digital Performer, Notion 3, and Reason 5 in my other posts to this FORUM, where the fabulous topic on "Notion 3, DISCO, and Sparkles" has most of the detailed information . . .

At some point, I am planning to write an eBook about all this stuff, since it took me somewhere in the range of 1,500 to 2,000 hours to make sense of everything, including music notation, virtual instruments, and how to do the ReWire activities, as well as how to use a Notion 3 virtual Piano as the MIDI source for notes played on a Reason 5 synthesizer, where the audio for the Reason 5 synthesizer is recorded in Digital Performer via ReWire as soundbites, which took about three weeks to discover how to do, and this is important, because the key to the complete digital recording solution is to keep what I call the Notion 3 "basic rhythm section" as the foundation of the song, such that everything is synchronized to the Notion 3 score, which makes it very easy to work with real instruments and voices in Digital Performer or to work with Reason 5 synthesizers, and so forth and so on, since everything begins and is anchored to the Notion 3 score . . .

And for reference, this is one of my ongoing experiments toward the goal of making sense of the rules for what I call "sparkles", and it is an 8-clef "sparkled" Psaltery Harp from the "World Instruments" collection for Xpansion Tank 2 (IK Multimedia) . . .

"Sparkles" (The Surf Whammys) -- MP3 (3.7MB, 259-kbps [VBR], approximately 1 minutes and 55 seconds)

At present, the primary thing I have discovered is that panning locations and volume are logarithmic, so the rules for "sparkles" require a good general understanding of somewhat advanced Mathematics and Geometry, as well as Acoustic Physics and Auditory Perception, but I am making progress on identifying a simple set of rules, at least to the extent at present that I know the rules are (a) not linear and (b) pretty strange . . .

Basically, there are three things happening simultaneously, and all of them are logarithmic or geometric, which makes it pretty strange to control, since these three things tend to interact in counterintuitive ways:

(1) specific panning location (logarithmic) . . .

(2) note volume level (logarithmic) . . .

(3) note pitch (pitch is geometric, but there is a logarithmic relationship among pitch, volume, and perceived loudness, which makes the rules for pitch truly strange with respect to "sparkles") . . .

On the good side, the rules for "sparkles" appear to be similar to the rules for working a whammy bar on a Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster, and it only took me two years to discover all the rules of whammying, which among other things is the primary reasons that very few lead guitar players actually do a lot of whammying (specifically, because the rules are very strange until you understand the logic, for which the short version is that you have to start whammying before you want it to be heard, and it needs to appear in the "in-between" spaces, otherwise you cannot hear it), which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :)

P. S. Regarding a MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, or Mac Pro, when I watch everything with Activity Monitor most of the time only perhaps 1/8th of the 2.8-GHz 8-core Mac Pro processors are being used, which tends to suggest that nearly everything is single-threaded or whatever, so an i7 Core Duo processor (2-core) probably works as well, where as best as I can determine the primary added value of the Mac Pro is (a) that the memory and hard drive buses are wider and faster and (b) the Xeon quad processors (4-core per processor) are faster . . .

The primary reason is that everything is 32-bit, although IK Multimedia just released a 64-bit version of T-RackS 3 Deluxe (v3.5), which is what I use for mixing and mastering, as well as for individual VST plug-in effects (brickwall limiter, compressors, programmable equalizer, and so forth) . . .

In other words, although the Mac Pro has 8 cores, for the most part only 1 core is fully utilized, which basically maps to the Mac Pro not doing very much actual computing in terms of what it is capable of doing if the software applications were designed and programmed specifically for multicore processing in a 64-bit application workspace, which in the software development arena is a major effort that requires software engineers to be able to work with code as if it were an orchestra playing in real-time, which a few software engineers can do, since it is not uncommon for software engineers to have musical abilities and to play instruments, really . . .

Really! :ugeek:
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby Surfwhammy » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:17 am

geebo2b wrote:Would you be so kind as to point me to a tutorial page on the actual steps to set up a connection between Notion3 and DP6 using reWire?? Info such as, which to launch first, how to call up Rewire and get some kind of menu that shows the 'connection' and then how to set up the recorded traks and to set up the Notion in orde to bounce only selected traks for future processing?


I posted a detailed set of steps with an example just a few minutes ago, so the detailed steps should get you going . . .

geebo2b wrote:I downloaded a demo version of rewire, and can call it up in Notion, but there seems to be no 'set-up- menu to link it with DP. No matter how I set the uotputs and inputs, DP receives no signal from Notion to record. I have searched online for a tutorial and can find nothing other than a passing reference to ReWire in the Notion documentation, but no instructions on how to set it up. All they talk about is what you should be able to do using reWire but no instructions.

Thanks for any info, or pointers or a link to a site that details the set up and operation of Notion to DP via ReWire. :?:


The documentation in both Digital Performer and Notion 3 is a bit beyond cryptic with respect to using ReWIre, but after doing a lot of experiments over a month or so, I made sense of the rules . . .

[NOTE: I am a registered Apple Developer (Mac OS X, iOS), and while I am not so expert in everything, I know enough about it to get a sense of the way software engineers think in the Apple universe, which makes it easier for me to devise workarounds when I encounter an odd behavior in Digital Performer or Notion 3. Everything works but there often are particular scenarios that work best, so discovering the scenarios that work best is a matter of tuning your mind to the way the software engineers were thinking at the time they wrote and tested the code, which basically is a matter of doing a rather surreal type of psychoanalysis. When your mindset is the same as the mindsets of the software engineers who wrote and tested the code, then everything (a) works wonderfully and (b) is absolutely accurate and reliable in every respect, and I can prove it, which I do every time I create a new song in Notion 3 and Digital Performer, which also is the case with IK Multimedia virtual instruments, and so forth and so on. All these applications have eccentric behaviors, but so what. They also have paths that work flawlessly, and the key is to focus on discovering the flawless paths . . . ]

(1) Setting the "Enable ReWire" option in Notion 3 'Preferences" is very important . . .

(2) One you set the "Enable ReWire" option in Notion 3 and exit Notion 3, then a lot of stuff happens automagically . . .

(3) The key to doing ReWire with Digital Performer as the ReWire host controller is to start Digital Performer first when nothing else is running, which is very important . . .

(4) You set the Digital Performer stereo track "Input" to the corresponding track channel pair that you set in Notion 3 for the matching track, and you want to avoid using Channels 1 through 10, so start with the "Channels 11-12" pair and go upward from there . . .

(5) You need to click the "rec" and "input" buttons for the Digital Performer tracks that you are going to record via ReWire to get the Notion 3 generated audio, where the following screen capture shows the two buttons after being clicked for a stereo track:

Image
Stereo Track Configured for ReWIre Recording ~ DP7

You will note that there are two fields with black letters on a white background just above the green background label for the track (Audio-14), and the top label reads "Notio...R38", which is the "Input" field for the track and currently is set to "Notion:Pair 19 L 37-Pair 19 R 38 (Stereo)", which when expanded by clicking on the field looks like this:

Image
Stereo Track Input Channels ~ DP7

If you do not see the Notion 3 channel pair you want to use, then click on "New Stereo Bundle" at the bottom of the submen, which will cause a submenu fly-out to appear with all the Notion 3 channel pairs, as well as a lot of other possible channels pairs, including all the Reason 5 channels . . .

(6) Remember (a) that you need to insert four empty or blank measures at the start of the Notion 3 score and (b) that never want to move the Digital Performer transport any earlier than the start of the fifth measure, which looks like this:

Image
Transport Clock Set to the Start of the Fifth Measure ~ DP7

The easy way to do this is to set a Marker in Digital Performer, which is like a bookmark . . .

(7) All the transport controlling is done with the Digital Performer transport, not with the Notion 3 transport . . .

Digital Performer is the ReWire host controller, so you do everything with Digital Performer, and Notion 3 is just there to follow the instructions provided via ReWire by Digital Performer . . .

(8) You need to set the tempo or beats per minute (BPM) in Digital Performer, since the tempo in Digital Performer is the one that is used, regardless of what the tempo might be in Notion 3, so if the tempo needs to be 200 BPM, then set it in Digital Performer before you start recording, which is very important . . .

(9) All the virtual instruments are standard CD quality, which maps to 44.1-kHz at 16-bits, so this is the way you want the sound quality or audio resolution set in Digital Performer. At present I like to set the frames to 30 frames per second, although I have no idea why . . .

Some folks think that setting the audio quality higher will make everything sound better, but this is not what happens, and in fact setting the audio quality higher makes it sound worse or inaudible . . .

In this instance the audio generated is 44.1-Hz at 16-bits, and setting the resolution to 24-bits just adds noise, hiss, and generally reduces the quality of the TONE and so forth and so on . . .

There is nothing wrong with standard CD quality, and it is the correct audio resolution for IK Multimedia virtual instruments, and it is the audio resolution that Notion 3 uses, so the audio will sound best in Digital Performer when everything matches . . .

(10) You want the "Dither" option set in Digital Performer, which is done by clicking on the "Audio" menu and then ensuring that there is a check mark to the left of "DIther", which will be the first menu item in the "Audio" menu . . .

(11) There are a few other things that need to be set in Digital Performer, but they probably already are set correctly . . .

I made a video of the basic steps once Notion 3 and Digital Performer 7 are configured, and I will post it as soon as it has finished rendering, which takes a while . . .

Notion 3 and Digital Performer work nicely together via ReWire, and it is very accurate and reliable when you follow a few simple rules, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :)
Last edited by Surfwhammy on Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby geebo2b » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:26 am

WOW!! At first glance..this all seems boggling..but I will copythis info and work through it step by step. I am sure eventually it will seem simple to me.(eventually)

Thank you so much for the time and effort to explain>>
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby Surfwhammy » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:33 am

geebo2b wrote:WOW!! At first glance..this all seems boggling..but I will copythis info and work through it step by step. I am sure eventually it will seem simple to me.(eventually)

Thank you so much for the time and effort to explain>>


Glad to help! :)

The Digital Performer and Notion 3 ReWire video finished rendering, so here it is:

[NOTE: You should be able to watch Windows Media Video movies on the Mac, but if not then you can download Flip4Mac, which makes it possible to watch WMV movies on the Mac. I made this video with Screenflow, which is done by Telestream, the same folks who do Flip4Mac. The Flip4Mac component for QuickTime is free, and it does not take long to download and install: Flip4Mac (Telestream) . . . ]

Digital Performer, Notion 3, and ReWIre (Overview and Example) -- WMV (21.7MB, approximately 13 minutes and 16 seconds)

It actually is easy once it makes sense, but it took me about a month to make sense of it, so it can be a bit complex at first, but the reality is that if you are doing it for the first time, then it is a new technology, so it takes a while . . .

Basically, doing digital music is at least as complex as flying a commercial airplane or running a Fortune 500 corporation, but most folks probably think that there is nothing complex about it . . .

The video is rendering, and it takes a while, since I did it at medium resolution so it is easier to see all the tiny buttons and stuff . . .

I am pondering the idea of writing an eBook about all this stuff and doing some video tutorials, but I already have written essentially a small book on Notion 3, DISCO, and Sparkles in this FORUM, which is one of the ways I make sense of things . . .

For me to write about something, I need to understand it, so writing about something includes taking a bit of time to check everything to ensure that the information is accurate, although I miss a few bits every once in a while . . .

Notion 3, DISCO, and Sparkles (Notion Music FORUM)

I like to write about music, and I like to help people solve problems, and I get a benefit from it, as well, since I nearly always have a new idea or insight on something when I write about stuff . . .

Written documentation is good, but describing and explaining everything in great detail maps to a lot of documentation, so it is not done so often these days, because it takes too long; costs too much; and not so many people take the time to read detailed information, but so what . . .

So what!

From my perspective, it is easier to deal with 10 to 15 somewhat detailed steps that actually work than to deal with a few sentences that mostly just say, "it works or something" . . . :idea:

It will make more sense when you watch the video, and it really is easy to do after you have done it a few times, which is where having fully documented and verified procedures comes into play, which is something that is made abundantly clear when you read the stellar book on "Recording the Beatles", where the first thing you observe is that Abbey Road Studios and George Martin had a procedure for everything to the nearly absurd level actually of having a procedure for the way a "Pop Singer" needs to stand when singing and needs to avoid unnecessary fidgeting, dancing, and so forth . . .

Recording the Beatles (Curvebender Publishing)

At first, it is easy to think that having a procedure for everything is a bit beyond nutty, but the reality is that the Beatles were a billion dollar business, and from this perspective having a procedure for everything makes sense, because it ensures the highest quality . . .

Abbey Road Studios had a detailed set of procedures for setting-up a microphone stand, and the procedure for a "Pop Singer" included detailed instructions and guidelines regarding the distance from the microphone, holding the head upright, and so much stuff that it is easy to understand the way the Beatles learned how to "work" a microphone by the time the made their first appearance on "The Ed Sullivan Show", where if you know all the rules for "working" a microphone, it is easy to observe the minutiae of what they were doing when they sang with respect to being highly focused on the microphones at all times, which is the direct result of George Martin being the choirmaster and the Beatles being attentive and diligent choirboys, while Brian Epstein coached them on behavior, attire, appearance, and comportment in general, which is fabulous . . .

[NOTE: I think this is a different television show done a bit later, but it is an excellent song and stellar live performance, and if you know about microphones, then it is easy to observe the way the Beatles always keep within the hot spot of a cardoid microphone pattern or whatever, which I suggest is not a coincidence, at all. Instead it is the result of training and great attention to detail, and they are following the Abbey Road Studios procedures, as well as the instructions and guidance from George Martin and Brian Epstein . . . ]

Image

"Help" (Beatles) -- YouTube music video

Fabulous! :)
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby geebo2b » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:04 pm

First off, Thanks for all the info..I finally got it all to work and would have never gotten that far without your input. So I am really thankful for your help.

The insurmountable problems I encountered : There was no way to disable the separate instances of the Miroslav Orchestra short of Deleting traks from Notion. SO I had to call up the full Orchestra version, Save it is , say; Flutes 1-2 then delete all of the other instruments. Of course , the risk here is accidentally saving over the original with the 'cut' version, and opening it up to find everything gone but the flute. So I at least got it this far w/o destroying the entire score.

Next, I set the Master slave up with rewire as per your tutorial. Everything seemed ok except : I had a major repeat section in Notion, and the repeat is not observed when run from DP. So I had to painstakingly copy out the entire repeat which did not go too smoothly as I kept making errors. (User error lol)
Next, I had at least 1'2 dozen tempi changes and Meter changes which I had to painstakingly input into DP.

Finally got that far, then there was one passage in the flutes that would jumble up the attacks no matter what. It was just one measure of Flutes in moderate tempo 16 notes, but for some reason at this point, the midi would halt and then jump ahead, and frequently squash the notes together as a chord. I finally got Them to play as notes , but always the 'burp' hesitation and leap ahead with the Sync.

Well, I figured I could live with it in the mix as it is covered by the full Orchestra here anyway. But, when I went to the next instrument , The Oboe, This 'burp' completely would unsync the incoming signal with the Audio just recorded. After a few measures, they would more or less re-sync, but with a slighlty noticable Delay where the incoming signal was slightly behind the recorded signal. Well, I have been at these 2 instruments for about 8 hours now, and the sync problem and this passage is insurmountable so I know that I can't go ahead and do this with an entire orchestrated work. ARG!!

At this point I realize, to do what I do with full orchestrated things and multiple tempi changes and meter changes I need either : a Computer set up like yours with MAX power and MAX everything ( I can't afford it) and I need the people at Notion to tweak a few things at least a way to Freeze Tre Garage Band so I can use less CPU, AND /or a way to Disable the multiple instances of the Samplers while bouncing or recording out so all the CPU failure sounds don't ruin it all.

Or I need my own Symphony Orchestra!

I will try to write to Notion to add some of the tweaks that can spare the CPU by giving the ability to disable instances without having to actually delete the score and perhaps a better mix-down feature, and at least add an EQ plug-in.

But thanks.. I have some simpler material that this procedure to sync through ReWire will work, but I guess the Full Orchestrated thing is a loss for now. :geek:
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby Surfwhammy » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:37 pm

geebo2b wrote:The insurmountable problems I encountered . . .


Everything you described maps to another set of eccentric behaviors that I encountered early in learning how to use Notion 3 productively, and the solution is not to use the Notion 3 predefined orchestral templates, as well as to keep the music notation as simple as possible with respect especially to tempo changes, measure and section repeats, and so forth and so on . . .

There is a way to create your own templates, both in Windows and on the Mac, which on the Mac was explained very nicely in a stellar post by fabiolcati earlier this year (2011), as I recall . . .

The reality is that all the IK Multimedia virtual instruments--including Miroslav Philharmonik--are what I call "heavy" virtual instruments, and this typically maps to limiting the total number of instruments in a single Notion 3 score to somewhere in the range of 20 to 25 instruments, although if you do not use any VST effects plug-ins in Notion 3, then you can increase the number of instruments, although not any higher than 50 (and best wishes on having 50 instruments) . . .

Another reality is that Notion 3 is doing a huge amount of computing behind the scenes, as are all the virtual instruments, and my perspective is that it is a bit amazing that everything works so nicely, so I have no problems with what Notion 3 does and in fact from the perspective of Computer Science and vast impressed, for sure . . .

For sure!

The key is to have a well-defined "system" with a set of simple rules that work accurately and reliably, which is an achievable and practical goal . . .

Based on what you described, it appears that there is a way to get Digital Performer to handle the tempo changes, so my perspective at present is that the measure repeats and some of the individual instrument dynamics and articulations are the problem, and based on my experimenting and testing, I think that most or perhaps all of the problems with individual instrument dynamics and articulations will disappear when you switch to creating and using your own predefined templates, since as best as I was able to determine there is a lot of special mapping done in the predefined Notion 3 orchestral templates and mappings for Miroslav Philharmonik, all of which you can avoid simply by defining and configuring your own predefined templates starting from a blank score and then adding one at a time the various Miroslav Philharmonik instruments, which you might need to do in a set of synchronized Notion 3 scores, which is the way I do it with Miroslav Philharmonik and Sample Tank virtual instruments . . .

It can appear to be complicated to use synchronized Notion 3 templates, but like the ReWire stuff, it is very easy to do and to manage once you understand how it works and have a nice set of procedures defined for your "system" . . .

I will provide a bit more information on this, with some examples, in a while . . .

Lots of FUN! :)
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby geebo2b » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:32 pm

Again..thank you thank for this info and any more you can supply.

I am kinda burned out at this very moment..so in a day or so I will re-tackle this problem.

SO My path I will try to take; Define my own templates. SO any advice to help in making them as streamlined as possible would be greatly appreciated.( That is, learning to use only that which is necessary and not adding anything into it that really is not necessary but only added due to ignorance on my part)

Also, should Templates be designed by Orchestral groupings or ranges or some other defining factor that may not appear musical to a musician, but, would make sense to an engineer in terms of making this run optimally?

Many of the tempo changes and meter changes, I put in not as structural features of the composition but to effect, ritardandos, Breaths, slight changes in speed to make it sound more like a performance by live players rather than midi. For instance, in the Ritardandos , I noticed that the 'symbol' available for Notion is only that, a symbol which is not a definable midi event so in essence,, I had to change the tempo over the course of a few bars in Notion to effect a slight slowdown. This is a definable set of events in DP and I can write it into DP when I am using Notion as a slave but this adds to the job of Mixing (which by the time I am using ReWire is what I want to be doing) so that divides the job into more 'composing' which takes away from the focus of mixing.

The Repeat problem only hit because at the time I was composing in Notion I was under the impression that I could just use Notion from start to finish. Had I known that I would be such a distance from the completed mix, I would have taken that into account, (I will take that into account for all future projects).

Any suggestions on Computer Upgrades would be appreciated. I plan to upgrade my Imac, by years end. I know I can't afford Mac Pro, and I have thousands invested in Mac compatible Applications, libraies/Samplers/FX etc. and would have to completely go over to PC versions. So going to PC (which I am not familiar with Windows ) is pretty much out of the pictures. I understand that Quad core machines only make any sense if the applications utilize that technology and to have Quad Core( or more) for programs that don't even use would probably be a waste of money.

But my main style is these big, orchestral oriented works with lots of nuance if possble and then less of Beats type and song with vocals . (I do that, but it is mostly the orchestral thing)

Iplan on upgrading to DP7 or higher when they get it. I love lots of those virtual synths. I tend to work about 90% with virtual stuff and only about 10% live recording. SO it tends to max out my Computer CPU and RAM.
SO any guidance towards a MAc solution, along the IMAc vein (Unless I win the lotto and can by the Mac pro stuff).
I just, for once would like to work very efficiantly with the LEAST amount of 'workarounds' due to equipment not powerful enough to do the job without manifold tweaks and workarounds.

Thanks again. I feel very fortunate to have someone with your knowledge so willing to help me by sharing your knowledge and experience.
Domo Arigato gozaimasu :D
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby Surfwhammy » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:18 am

geebo2b wrote:Again..thank you thank for this info and any more you can supply.


(1) This is the information on how to create your own user-defined templates:

fabiolcati wrote:On Mac templates are located into Notion' package.

1. ctrl-click on Notion program icon in *Applications* folder

2. Choose *Show Package Contents*

3. Open *Contents* folder

4. Open *Resources* folder

5. Locate *Templates* folder

Follow the path to save your own templates.


The key bit of information is that you begin by creating a Notion 3 score, and it is the Notion 3 score that you will save in the Notion 3 application package "Templates" folder . . .

Once you have done this, your user-defined template will appear in the list of Notion 3 templates, which makes it easy to use . . .

[IMPORTANT: The name of template begins with a sequential number, and this number is used to determine where the template appears in the list of predefined templates, so follow the naming convention. I think the highest number in use was "17" when I made my first user-defined template, so I prefixed the name with "18" and a space, so instead of the file name being "MyOrchestraTempate.notion" it is "18 MyOrchestraTemplate.notion", and as you can see, the templates are Notion 3 scores with the instruments defined but typically with no notes on the staves . . . ]

(2) Regarding what makes the most sense to have in a template, I think it depends on what you need to do and how many instruments you plan to use . . .

It also depends on the strategies you will be using for recording, printing, and so forth, each of which tends to have different requirements . . .

Here in the sound isolation studio, the reality is that I do everything, so it is natural and convenient to do one thing at a time, which is all I can do, so single-stepping everything works nicely for me, and when composing a song I work on one instrument at a time, which typically is either a melody instrument or a rhythm guitar . . .

When I am composing with music notation, I usually focus on a simple melody, but when composing with a real electric guitar, I focus on a rhythm guitar chord pattern, which I then translate into music notation . . .

And I do everything in elaborate layers, where initially the basic instruments (drums, bass, rhythm guitar or keyboard chords, and melody) appear very quickly once I have approximately 16 measures of a melody line or at least the verse or chorus of a rhythm guitar chord pattern, but additional instrumental parts tend to appear after I listen to everything for a while, since as the number of instruments and parts increases, it takes a bit of listening to identify places where more stuff can go, as well as to determine when a song has enough instrumentation . . .

For example, "(Baby You Were) Only Dreaming" (The Surf Whammys) begins with a four or five measure prologue and then switches to the chorus, where the chorus is followed by the first verse and another chorus, which then is followed by the bridge or interlude, and the pattern repeats for a total of three verses but just two bridges or interludes . . .

Initially, the song was "inspired by" the patently strange Christina Aguilera song, "Not Myself Tonight", and it was going to have more Dubstep, Techno, and Trance stuff, since my focus earlier this year was on discovering how to do Dubstep, Techno, and Trance with music notation and virtual instruments, but somewhere along the way the song wandered a bit, and I decided to use some lyrics that I did as an example for a post in the GuitarZone.com FORUM on ways to write a new song based on an old song, since one of my primary goals musically is to avoid doing anything actually original when at all possible, really . . .

Really! :D

And the silly lyrics I composed were based on the lyrics for "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" (Beatles), which for me is something I can do in my sleep, in part due to studying dictionaries and enjoying nonsense prose and poetry, which in some respects is a matter of having a bit of FUN with gibberish, parody, puns, and so forth . . .

For example:

"Picture yourself in a boat on a river" (Original lyrics for "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds")


"There you are sailing with a camera" (Somewhat stating the obvious)


So, I had three verses of gibberish based on "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds", and after thinking about it for a while I realized that the chord pattern for the chorus fits nicely with the phrase "Lucy in the sky with diamonds", which then led to "Baby you were only dreaming", except that the "dreaming" part is only sung at the end of each of the two sections of the chorus, since this is the way it fits with the chord pattern and synchronization . . .

Baby you were only . . .
Baby you were only . . .
Baby you were only dreaming!

Yeah, baby you were only . . .
Baby you were only . . .
Baby you were only dreaming!

©2011 RAE Multimedia


The song started as "Tonight, I'm Myself, Too" or something equally silly, and for a while I was tempted to "borrow" an idea from Spinal Tap, where the title of the song would be "Tonight, I'm Myself Tonight", but I decided against it, since it was entirely too obvious . . .

And while the gibberish verse lyrics were useful, the perspective did not fit the song, but this resolved nicely as the consequence of being unable to find anise seed at the local grocery store when I was getting ready to roast a goose, hence I had to use Australian licorice, which led to observing that there is a licorice drink that has psychedelic properties (absinthe), which is the key to the perspective of the song and made it possible to revise the gibberish lyrics so that they actually make a bit of sense, although in a surreal way . . .

[1ST VERSE]

Absinthe in camera
Sailing the seas
In search of green auras
As much as I please

The telephone rings
But nobody is home
An imagined young lady
Sits there all alone
As velvet clouds of rolling fog
Dance around and wander through your mind
When the telephone operator tells you
To insert another dime if you want more time . . .

©2011 RAE Multimedia


"(Baby You Were) Only Dreaming" (The Surf Whammys) -- MP3 (9.4MB, 281-kbps [VBR], approximately 4 minutes and 35 seconds)

It required a lot of listening to determine the lyrics for the chorus, and since the verse has elaborate counterpoint but no actual melody at present, it is taking a while to fit the lyrics to a melody that will work with the already defined counterpoint in the verses, which is the way it happens occasionally here in the sound isolation studio, for sure . . .

For sure!

So, the reality for me is that I have no need at present for anything other than a user-defined template with 20 or so basic instruments, and I make an effort to keep everything as simple as possible, which also includes using dynamics and articulations only when it cannot be avoided . . .

The point to this is that the best strategy is to decide what you need to do and then to determine a practical way to do it, which with respect to orchestral work really depends on the total number of instruments and the various ways the instruments might be grouped or organized . . .

My experimenting and testing makes it clear that the best strategy for me is to start with a Notion 3 score that has from 20 to 25 instruments and then to clone the Notion 3 score when I need additional instruments, where I keep perhaps 5 instruments common to all the cloned Notion 3 scores so that I know the tempo and where the various sections of the song begin and end . . .

By doing it this way, I can have 500 to 1,000 instruments, but the instruments are spread over as many as 50 Notion 3 scores, all of which are synchronized and so forth, which works very nicely for what I need to do, and is the strategy I will use if I decide to write a symphony or virtually anything, because by the time the first 20 instruments are composed, the structure of the song is defined, and I know how everything is supposed to work from that point forward, although not necessarily in any immediately conscious way, really . . .

Really!

Another key aspect of strategies is based on the perspectives one has regarding the way everything works, where for example my perspective tends to be a bit anarchistic in the sense that while an orchestra might have 100 musicians and quite a few of the musicians play exactly the same parts, in my orchestra every musician would play a different part, which requires 100 different sets of sheet music rather than a smaller number of sets that are the same for a Violin section and so forth . . .

And if a particular instrument is not sufficient loud to be heard, I would put a pickup or microphone on it and run it through an amplifier . . .

Additionally, I would have the musicians located in places that make it easy to put notes into motion, which at minimum maps to having bilateral symmetry, so that there is a contrabass on the left and a contrabass on the right, along with a contrabass in the middle . . .

When done this way, the reality is that you cannot get everything into a single Notion 3 score, and another reality is that even if you could get everything into a single Notion 3 score, none of the musicians want to see anything other than the music notation for their particular instrument, so separating the instruments into groups and putting each group in a separate but synchronized Notion 3 score makes a bit of sense, although it is a bit non-standard in some respects . . .

And then what if you want to have an orchestra that has 500 or 1,000 musicians?

The key is to devote a bit of attention to determining what you need to do, and the reality is that it takes a while, since there is so much stuff happening and so many things to consider . . .

My perspective is that I simply am very glad that I can do all this stuff some way, and this puts the practical focus on discovering how to do more stuff in a way that is consistent with the capabilities of Digital Performer, Notion 3, IK Multimedia virtual instruments, and the various VST effects plug-ins I use . . .

I learned how to sight-sing Classical music as a child when I was in a liturgical boys choir, so I know a lot about music theory and music notation, as well as orchestras and so forth, but once I started junior high school I switched to electric bass and playing "by ear", so I never did anything with music notation until this time last year, which more than anything maps to my having few if any preconceived rules about what is "good" or "bad" in the music notation universe . . .

Another thing I do, which is totally non-standard but is very easy to do with Notion 3, is that I do everything on the treble clef, since I only learned how to sight-sing notes on the treble clef, hence all the other clefs are totally strange . . .

Notion 3 has the option to change the way notes are played, and for bass I set the treble clef to play the notes two octaves lower . . .

Another thing I do is to avoid using key signatures, so everything I do is in the key of C, and if a note sounds better flatted or sharped, then I add a flat or a sharp before the note, and I also do everything in 4/4 time, even when it is not really 4/4 time, at all, which also is bit beyond non-standard . . .

For example, this is a Flamenco song that has what I think is the standard 12-beat Bulería rhythm pattern for the verses and chorus but has a custom-designed 36-beat rhythm pattern for the interlude, which is fabulous . . .

"Maríta de la Luna y Pablito el Petardo (No Es Tanto Lo Que Es Como Lo Que No Es)" (The Surf Whammys) -- MP3 (7.8MB, 279-kbps [VBR], approximately 3 minutes and 40 seconds)

Fabulous!

Overall, I think it makes sense to have user-defined templates for groupings and sections, but there need to be at least a few staves for common instruments so that you have a reference beat, chords, bass line, and melody . . .

(3) Regarding suggestions for an Apple computer, I think that an iMac is fine, and I probably would get the least expensive current iMac and then upgrade it with memory from Other World Computing . . .

There is a bit of logic to getting a quad-core processor, as well . . .

Another possibility is to get a used but reasonably recent Mac Pro if the price is attractive, and I like PowerMax in Oregon for this purpose . . .

Certified Pre-Owned Mac Pro (PowerMax)

However, based on what I observe when I run Activity Monitor, I think that a new quad-core Mac Pro is more than sufficient, and they key is to get the most basic model possible, typically at a small discount at Amazon.com . . .

Apple memory and hard drives are outrageously expensive, so I get the basic model at Amazon.com just before a new model arrives, which typically maps to a slightly increased discount for about a week or two, and then I upgrade the memory and hard drives with stuff from Other World Computing . . .

Other World Computing

From the perspective of Computer Science, there is very little difference in the processing capabilities of a 2.8GHz, 3.2GHz, 3.33GHz machine (which are the current processors for the Mac Pro), but there are significant difference in the price, so unless the price differences are equally small, I simply get the slowest new model . . .

And the reality for hard drives is that they cost about $100 to $150 and are trivial to install in a Mac Pro . . .

With an iMac, you can upgrade the memory, but it is not easy to upgrade the internal hard drive, so the better solution for increased hard drive storage is to use a LaCie external hard drive like the LaCie d2 Quadra Hard Disk (a personal favorite), since Firewire 800 is very fast, and you can use the internal iMac drive for time-sensitive stuff but the LaCie external drive for less time-sensitive stuff . . .

LaCie d2 Quadra Hard Disk

Another very important reality is that doing digital music is vastly easier on the Mac, since everything is there, and it is designed to be there . . .

You can do the same thing with a Windows computer, but the components come from a different vendors and there is no central anything, which is fine if you know enough about computers to deal with hardware and software issues, but is not so fine otherwise . . .

With a Mac, if there is a problem, then you call AppleSupport, which is a clue regarding the "complete system" aspect . . .

Of course, if you upgrade the memory and hard drives with stuff from Other World Computing, then you call them if there are memory or hard drive problems, but so what . . .

So what!

The general rule is that if memory and hard drives work for the first week, then they will work for years and years, and for the most part memory comes from the same manufacturing plants no matter what company name is stamped on the outside, which is one of the advantages of having started in the Windows universe and then switching 15 years later to the Apple universe, at least in the sense of doing stuff with computer hardware not being a big deal here in the sound isolation studio . . .

Another reality is that when you design and build a Windows machine that does the same things as a Mac with respect to speed, audio quality, and so forth and so on, (a) the Windows machine will cost the same or more than the Mac and (b) it is quite likely that you will need to mess with stuff on a high-end sound card, which is not the case with a Mac, since the audio hardware and software in a Mac is high quality and is designed to work specifically with Core Audio and so forth and so on, so it just happens without you needing to mess with a bunch of computer stuff, which is one of the more distressing things that Microsoft discovered in the process of doing Windows Vista, where initially Microsoft had very strict requirements for all the hardware, which is the only way to ensure that a Windows machine will be comparable in every respect with a Mac, but what happened was that all the hardware vendors balked, because making high-quality components costs considerably more, and if you put high-quality components in a computer, you cannot sell it for $350 (US), let alone build it . . .

Apple only makes six computers (Mac mini, iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro), but all of them have high-quality components, and they are designed specifically to do creative computing (digital audio, graphic design and print, video, and so forth and so on), which requires better and faster hardware . . .

So, one possibility is the basic 21.5" iMac (2.5-GHz quad-core, 4GB memory, 500GB hard drive), which you can upgrade to 8GB of memory for $50 using Other World Computing memory, since it comes with 4GB (2GBx2) and has two open memory slots, so you get another 4GB matched pair, and then you are using the full memory bus . . .

This is very fast machine, and it also has a Thunderbolt port for external SSD drives, which apparently is 10 times faster than Firewire 800, so a 500GB internal hard drive is plenty of primary storage . . .

When I decided to get the Mac Pro, one reason was that I needed a faster computer, but the other reason was that I wanted to start doing video work, and video work requires a lot of processing speed . . .

If I were only doing digital audio, then I think a new 21.5" iMac is more than sufficient, and it is reasonably good for video work, although not so fast as a Mac Pro . . .

Another reality is that all the audio stuff for the most part is 32-bit, so tossing more processors and memory at it tends to be a bit frivolous, and while 64-bit audio applications are on the horizon, the problem is that using them requires upgrading all the software, which is not an inexpensive activity, and I have no desire to purchase an entirely new set of software just to start doing everything in the 64-bit universe . . .

(4) Regarding the way I use Notion 3 with Digital Performer, I get the Notion 3 generated audio into Digital Performer 7 via ReWire where I record it in Digital Performer 7 as soundbites . . .

Once the soundbites are recorded, I close Notion 3 and then work exclusively in Digital Performer 7 for producing, mixing, and mastering, so the only time that Digital Performer 7 and Notion 3 are running simultaneously is for the short time that it takes to record the Notion 3 generated audio as soundbites in Digital Performer 7 . . .

All the other times, I work with one application at a time (Digital Performer 7, Notion 3, or Reason 5), and this keep everything very simple, which maps to accuracy and reliability, and it is faster, since there is no ReWire interapplication communication happening . . .

You can disable ReWIre for Notion 3 by clearing or unchecking the "Enable ReWire" option in "Preferences", but Reason 5 does ReWIre, so if you run Reason 5 and Digital Performer at the same time, some or all the ReWire stuff is happening in one way or another even when you are not doing anything specific with ReWire . . .

Digital Performer has limits on the amount of stuff it can handle, so I prefer to run it by itself to make as much of the computing resources available as possible, and I tend to use a lot of "heavy" VST effects plug-ins, and there are limits to the number of tracks and special effects . . .

Lots of FUN! :)
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby geebo2b » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:18 pm

I am so thankful for your response. There is a lot of info here, will have to re-read and process it. But thank you for all of it!!!!
One quick question, When you say you work with "Soundbytes' in DP. is the sound byte format a different wasy of working than recording onto an audio trak?? I have never used the soundbyte window or editor in DP so I am not familiar with working in that vein. ( I will pull out the user manual and check out Soundbytes"

The reason I am asking is perhaps I am going about this improperly. I hooked up Rewire and enabled it in Notion3, then set everything up for DP to run Notion as a slave. I enabled a stereo audio track in DP to receive input from the selected trak in Notion and hit record. So then I let the entire single instrument record from Notion. (ANd all the burps and glitches' It is almost 8 minutes, occasionally I would get near the end and the DP audio would glitch and quit> But is this 'basically' the right procedure?? Or is there a 'special' way to do 'Soundbytes'? as opposed to just recording long audio files on an audio channel??

I will go find my DP manual and look it up..but if you have a short answer that says ; That is, or isn't the way to do it' that will help too.

Anyway, I am off to check out your links!! I admit I am a bit dazzled by your extensive knowledge,, but even more so by your incredible ability to create very rational paths for your self in order to focus on and solve problems!! You seem to have a very acutely tuned ability to know how to approach and solve problems. The only other person I know like you has a 150+ IQ which is what I imagine you to have!! The difference between he and you, is he is a curmudgeon and is impatient with people asking questions and you are so willing to help. Wow, genius and kindness, RARE!!! Thank You!!!
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Re: EQ plug-in

Postby Surfwhammy » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:50 am

geebo2b wrote:I am so thankful for your response. There is a lot of info here, will have to re-read and process it. But thank you for all of it!!!!
One quick question, When you say you work with "Soundbytes' in DP. is the sound byte format a different wasy of working than recording onto an audio trak?? I have never used the soundbyte window or editor in DP so I am not familiar with working in that vein. ( I will pull out the user manual and check out Soundbytes"

The reason I am asking is perhaps I am going about this improperly. I hooked up Rewire and enabled it in Notion3, then set everything up for DP to run Notion as a slave. I enabled a stereo audio track in DP to receive input from the selected trak in Notion and hit record. So then I let the entire single instrument record from Notion. (ANd all the burps and glitches' It is almost 8 minutes, occasionally I would get near the end and the DP audio would glitch and quit> But is this 'basically' the right procedure?? Or is there a 'special' way to do 'Soundbytes'? as opposed to just recording long audio files on an audio channel??

I will go find my DP manual and look it up..but if you have a short answer that says ; That is, or isn't the way to do it' that will help too.

Anyway, I am off to check out your links!! I admit I am a bit dazzled by your extensive knowledge,, but even more so by your incredible ability to create very rational paths for your self in order to focus on and solve problems!! You seem to have a very acutely tuned ability to know how to approach and solve problems. The only other person I know like you has a 150+ IQ which is what I imagine you to have!! The difference between he and you, is he is a curmudgeon and is impatient with people asking questions and you are so willing to help. Wow, genius and kindness, RARE!!! Thank You!!!


Thanks for the kind words! :)

(1) Regarding soundbites, this is the name for recorded tracks as you work with them in Digital Performer, so when you record a track in Digital Performer the recorded track appears as a "soundbite", and you work with the soundbite rather than the actual recorded track, which preserves the audio file for the recorded track . . .

And once you have recorded the Notion 3 generated audio tracks in Digital Performer, you can close Notion 3, since Notion 3 is no longer needed, because (a) you have the recorded tracks and (b) you are working with the soundbites of the recorded tracks . . .

When you record audio into Digital Performer, an audio file is created and it is stored on your hard disk. This is referred to as a “parent” audio file. A “soundbite” is an edited region of that parent file. When you work within the Graphic Editing window in DP you are editing the soundbites, not the parent file.

Because the editing is being done to the soundbites, and not the actual parent files themselves, Digital Performer is able to perform “non-destructive” editing. This allows you to cut, paste, copy, and shift the location of these soundbites without affecting the original audio recorded into the program.

While working in a Digital Performer file it is common to build a large catalog of soundbites that are associated to the file. For tips on how to organize and manage these files, see the technote on Soundbite Management.


[SOURCE: Soundbites (MOTU.com) ]

When I am working in the Digital Performer Mixing Board, I use the term "track", but when the perspective is on what you see in the Sequence Editor, I use the term "soundbite", which for example maps to saying something like "I am working with the soundbite for a recorded track" or "This is the soundbite for the 'L. Kick Drum' track" . . .

(2) There are limits to what Digital Performer and Notion 3 can handle, as you have discovered, so one strategy is to do the work in smaller steps, where for example, you do not need to record all the tracks of a Notion 3 score at one time . . .

Instead, you can record a smaller set of Notion 3 tracks in Digital Performer and when that set of tracks is recorded, you then can record another set of Notion 3 tracks . . .

Generally, I record perhaps at most 20 Notion 3 generated tracks at a time, on an one-to-one basis, where there is a Digital Performer stereo track with matching ReWire channel assignment for each of the 20 Notion 3 generated tracks . . .

When the recording is completed, I clear the "rec" and "input" buttons on the Digital Performer mixing board for the just-recorded tracks and switch for a moment to Notion 3, where I set the "Output" of the just-recorded Notion 3 tracks from channel pairs back to "Master", and then if there are more tracks that need recording I set their "Output" to a channel pair and then switch back to Digital Performer, where I configure a new set of stereo tracks for ReWire and recording . . .

So, if you are trying to record all the instruments in a Notion 3 score simultaneously but it is overwhelming Digital Performer, then all you need to do is to record the Notion 3 tracks in sets, where there are 5 to 10 tracks in each set or whatever number of tracks works best for your computer . . .

This takes longer (basically the length of the song multiplied by the number of sets, plus about 5 to 10 minutes of clearing and setting the ReWire channels and so forth), but doing it this way works nicely . . .

I find that it tends to be easier to have a pattern, and left-to-right works nicely, so for example if you have 30 tracks in a Notion 3 score, you can record the first 10 tracks only and then record the next 10 tracks, and so forth . . .

The important thing is resetting and assigning the ReWire channels after each group of 10 tracks are recorded, which takes a few minutes but is not difficult to do, and you also need to clear and set the "rec" and "input" buttons for the tracks in Digital Performer, and you need to do the 5 to 10 second prerecord step to load the buffers . . .

If grouping the tracks 10 at a time overwhelms Digital Performer, then group them 5 at a time . . .

At some point, you can have so many tracks in Digital Performer that nothing works, and the number of tracks depends on the complexity of the soundbites; the processing speed of the computer; and the number and types of VST effects plug-ins you are using in Digital Performer, as well as any automation you are doing in Digital Performer . . .

Until you get a sense of what Digital Performer can handle, it is a good idea to save your work frequently, which also is the case with Notion 3 . . .

[NOTE: If Notion 3 crashes, when you restart Notion 3 it might want to "recover" the score, and my experience is that it is better not to allow Notion 3 to "recover" the score when you save frequently, because the score that is "recovered" might be an older version. My advice is to save your work frequently, which basically maps to every time you do about five minutes of work or do something that you do not want to lose. And I also do a "Save As" every so often, because I have had Notion 3 scores that became corrupted when I was pushing the limits of what Notion 3 can handle (50 "heavy" VSTi instruments and perhaps 10 "medium" VST effects plug-ins), where in some instances the score was so near the upper limit that adding a single new note would lock-up Notion 3 to the point that the text on Mac OS X menus would disappear, which is a very gnarly memory leak. So, save frequently and do an occasional "Save As", too. Generally avoid allowing Notion 3 to "recover" a score that you know has been saved correctly. Also, if you do a lot of copying and pasting, Notion 3 gets a bit confused after a while, which I think is a matter of not rerunning a class constructor or initializer, although it might be a matter of using improperly defined numeric variables or occasionally forgetting that array indices begin at 0 rather than 1 in C and C++. I generally save, close, and restart Notion 3 after copying and pasting 4 to 8 instruments for perhaps 100 to 200 measures a few times. When class structures are used, stuff like this happens every once in a while, and it is not so easy to debug, hence the simple and practical solution is to save frequently and to close, save, and restart Notion 3 every once in a while to force all the classes and frameworks to reinitialize and so forth, which is one way to deal effectively with troublesome memory leaks or whatever. In low-level C, this is easy to debug, but programming with classes and frameworks is a bit like finding the start and end of a Möbius strip, and best wishes on that activity . . . ]

(3) There is a parameter in Notion 3 "Preferences" for the "Audio Buffer Size", and after doing some experiments, it works best on the Mac Pro to leave it at the default value, which is 256 samples . . .

Digital Performer has something similar, and it is done by configuring the hardware driver, as shown in this screen capture:

Image
Configure Hardware Driver ~ DP7

This is the way it works best on the Mac Pro here in the sound isolation studio, and as I recall I had it set similarly on the 20" iMac 2.1-GHz G5, but it was 512 with a multiplier of 2 rather than 1024 with a multiplier of 2 . . .

If the buffers are too large, then the applications (Digital Performer and Notion 3) do too much look-ahead trying to fill the larger buffers, so the general idea is to configure the buffers so that they are just large enough to keep everything flowing smoothly . . .

Lots of FUN! :)
The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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