Please share your Rewire findings here (admin please reply)

[musicman]

Hello musicians,

I would like to post my findings on trying to get Rewire to work witn Sonar 8.5 PE (32bit), Reason 3 and Notion 3. Please reply with your own findings here if you feel like they will help others. I understand that there are other Rewire posts, but I had a hard time finding an exact match.

I intitially had problems when I tried to run Rewire with a 64 bit version of Sonar 8.5 on Windows 7 and found that Rewire does not support any 64 bit OS at this time. I am very suprised that this has not been addressed by Propellerhead since there is a lot of people looking to updgrade and take advantage of 64 bit:(.

I ended up installing Notion 3 on my Win XP Home Premium 32 bit and Sonar does not show up as a possible Rewire device. I did notice the that Reason 3 does show up and works with some issues that need to be addressed.

I was able to get the ASIO drivers (both ASIOAll and M-audio 1814 ASIO rescent drivers) to work with a bit of messing around. I wanted to use the ASIO drivers because of the low latency verses the default drivers which I now have working.

I was also told by Notion 3 support that the ASIO drivers sometimes get locked open so that a full reboot is needed to unlock the drivers. After working a bit with things, I was able to get the ASIO drives work correctly and can now open and close Notion 3 multiple times without rebooting.

Notion 3 does not deal with "loops" and is one of the main issues that I have with Rewire at this time. Notion does not recognize or follow any loops that are in any other programs. I am suprised and was even more suprised when I was unable to find any type of "looping" in Notion 3 (unless I am missing something).

I tried to get Notion 3 to respond to a looping section in Reason 3 and the loop point would not take. The left and right loop markers are locked to the beginning of a score and cannot be changed.

After searching the web, I found that Sonar 8 focused quite a bit on optimizing the ASIO performance for RTAS.

=======================================================================================================

This is from the SONAR 8 detailed product description, titled "Performance Optimizations," under "What's New in SONAR 8":

Performance optimizations

Although every version of SONAR we shipped in the past had some degree of optimization work, SONAR 8 is the first version of SONAR to which we applied the same engineering process to performance optimizations as we do with other more user visible features. i.e. we established goals, built a specification for the optimizations, split up the work into milestones and tracked the progress of these tasks just as we do for other features. To make testing more deterministic, we devised various internal profiling tools in order to track and measure changes in performance across a variety of hardware platforms on XP as well as Vista.

Systems tested included brand new cutting edge platforms from Intel and AMD as well as earlier generation machines. We split up this work into the following classes of performance enhancements for SONAR 8:

CPU and kernel level optimizations - use less of your CPU to do the same amount of work
User Interface optimizations - faster drawing, scrolling, zooming
Driver level optimizations - more efficient access to drivers, minimizing driver state transitions
Vista OS specific optimizations - Better use of MMCSS thread priorities, support for custom MMCSS task profiles, new WASAPI support
Audio engine optimizations - optimize "hotspots" in our bussing, streaming and mixing code
As a result of all these changes, SONAR 8 has the following benefits:

greatly minimized kernel usage. This helps provide more "kernel bandwidth" to drivers who need it the most. More kernel bandwidth translates into less potential for audio glitches.
Lower CPU usage - translates to better performance at low latency
More efficient use of audio drivers - esp with ASIO drivers
Better performance on Windows Vista esp X64. Many of the complaints of Vista performance as compared to XP have been solved with SONAR 8. X64 low latency performance should now be on par with X86.
Faster application launch
Less flicker in GUI. Track view splitters no longer flicker when resizing.
More responsive zoom and scroll with large projects. Zooming with wave files now uses 1/2 the RAM with 24-bit or less stereo or mono files used.
Better meter performance.
Improved thread scheduling by insuring threads are properly distributed on processors.
This shows the overall benefits of SONAR 8 as compared to SONAR 7.

ASIO enhancements

ASIO devices are now always kept in a started state and not periodically stopped and restarted each time you start playback from the transport.
Addressed problem where the first ASIO buffer was not audible (audio metronome first beat is now always clear in ASIO mode).
Improved handling for driver reported ASIO output latency. Tracks are now automatically compensated based on the driver reported output latency. i.e when running at higher latencies, the now time in SONAR will exactly coincide with what you are hearing from your speakers.
SONAR Audio Options buffer size display automatically updates after changing buffer size from ASIO Control Panel.
Loopback recording is now sample accurate in ASIO mode
Numerous other improvements and optimizations to ASIO core.
ASIO latency updates in audio options after changing panel.
Audio driver changes without restart
SONAR has traditionally required an application restart when changing various driver specific settings in the audio options dialog, before the changes were applied. For some changes such as configuring ports or changing the driver model, this often meant restarting more than once, as well as several confusing prompts that the user had to respond to before the changes were accepted.

In SONAR 8 we now streamline this process by minimizing the number of prompts and not requiring a restart of the application. This includes adding and removing inputs/outputs and changing driver modes.

I knew that the ASIO drivers did not make best use of Vista's WaveRT audio processing improvements. I can't tell from the Edirol drivers download page whether the Vista 64-bit drivers include WaveRT support. If you haven't already installed this driver, but you are using Vista, you might try the new driver to see if it helps you. If WaveRT is supported by your hardware, you will see WaveRT as a driver choice in SONAR.

=======================================================================================================
I purchased Notion 3 to be my notaion program to Rewire with Sonar and Reason 3 as both as a Slave and Master. Reson 3 has no actual notation and Sonar 8 has very limited notation funcionality.

I find Notion 3 to be the notation software that I will use and I will not even consider the comeptition. Notion 3 is very easy to use and gives a fantastic bang for the buck. I do however realize that there are some issues that need to be resolved as with any software product.

Please add your own thoughts, comments and experiences to this so we can learn from each other. I also added admin please reply so that we can get some information and details on Rewire. Thank you for your time. Stephen

[Admin]

Hello musicians,

I would like to post my findings on trying to get Rewire to work witn Sonar 8.5 PE (32bit), Reason 3 and Notion 3. Please reply with your own findings here if you feel like they will help others. I understand that there are other Rewire posts, but I had a hard time finding an exact match.

I intitially had problems when I tried to run Rewire with a 64 bit version of Sonar 8.5 on Windows 7 and found that Rewire does not support any 64 bit OS at this time. I am very suprised that this has not been addressed by Propellerhead since there is a lot of people looking to updgrade and take advantage of 64 bit:(.

Rewire does not run on a 64 bit DAW. It will however run on a 64 bit OS....Although you should have a 32 bit version of Sonar (I though they included both versions when you purchased the 64 bit version). So you can use the 32 bit version of Sonar on your 64 bit OS and use Rewire.

I ended up installing Notion 3 on my Win XP Home Premium 32 bit and Sonar does not show up as a possible Rewire device. I did notice the that Reason 3 does show up and works with some issues that need to be addressed.

I was able to get the ASIO drivers (both ASIOAll and M-audio 1814 ASIO rescent drivers) to work with a bit of messing around. I wanted to use the ASIO drivers because of the low latency verses the default drivers which I now have working.

I was also told by Notion 3 support that the ASIO drivers sometimes get locked open so that a full reboot is needed to unlock the drivers. After working a bit with things, I was able to get the ASIO drives work correctly and can now open and close Notion 3 multiple times without rebooting.

Notion 3 does not deal with "loops" and is one of the main issues that I have with Rewire at this time. Notion does not recognize or follow any loops that are in any other programs. I am suprised and was even more suprised when I was unable to find any type of "looping" in Notion 3 (unless I am missing something).

I tried to get Notion 3 to respond to a looping section in Reason 3 and the loop point would not take. The left and right loop markers are locked to the beginning of a score and cannot be changed.

After searching the web, I found that Sonar 8 focused quite a bit on optimizing the ASIO performance for RTAS.

=======================================================================================================

This is from the SONAR 8 detailed product description, titled "Performance Optimizations," under "What's New in SONAR 8":

Performance optimizations

Although every version of SONAR we shipped in the past had some degree of optimization work, SONAR 8 is the first version of SONAR to which we applied the same engineering process to performance optimizations as we do with other more user visible features. i.e. we established goals, built a specification for the optimizations, split up the work into milestones and tracked the progress of these tasks just as we do for other features. To make testing more deterministic, we devised various internal profiling tools in order to track and measure changes in performance across a variety of hardware platforms on XP as well as Vista.

Systems tested included brand new cutting edge platforms from Intel and AMD as well as earlier generation machines. We split up this work into the following classes of performance enhancements for SONAR 8:

CPU and kernel level optimizations - use less of your CPU to do the same amount of work
User Interface optimizations - faster drawing, scrolling, zooming
Driver level optimizations - more efficient access to drivers, minimizing driver state transitions
Vista OS specific optimizations - Better use of MMCSS thread priorities, support for custom MMCSS task profiles, new WASAPI support
Audio engine optimizations - optimize "hotspots" in our bussing, streaming and mixing code
As a result of all these changes, SONAR 8 has the following benefits:

greatly minimized kernel usage. This helps provide more "kernel bandwidth" to drivers who need it the most. More kernel bandwidth translates into less potential for audio glitches.
Lower CPU usage - translates to better performance at low latency
More efficient use of audio drivers - esp with ASIO drivers
Better performance on Windows Vista esp X64. Many of the complaints of Vista performance as compared to XP have been solved with SONAR 8. X64 low latency performance should now be on par with X86.
Faster application launch
Less flicker in GUI. Track view splitters no longer flicker when resizing.
More responsive zoom and scroll with large projects. Zooming with wave files now uses 1/2 the RAM with 24-bit or less stereo or mono files used.
Better meter performance.
Improved thread scheduling by insuring threads are properly distributed on processors.
This shows the overall benefits of SONAR 8 as compared to SONAR 7.

ASIO enhancements

ASIO devices are now always kept in a started state and not periodically stopped and restarted each time you start playback from the transport.
Addressed problem where the first ASIO buffer was not audible (audio metronome first beat is now always clear in ASIO mode).
Improved handling for driver reported ASIO output latency. Tracks are now automatically compensated based on the driver reported output latency. i.e when running at higher latencies, the now time in SONAR will exactly coincide with what you are hearing from your speakers.
SONAR Audio Options buffer size display automatically updates after changing buffer size from ASIO Control Panel.
Loopback recording is now sample accurate in ASIO mode
Numerous other improvements and optimizations to ASIO core.
ASIO latency updates in audio options after changing panel.
Audio driver changes without restart
SONAR has traditionally required an application restart when changing various driver specific settings in the audio options dialog, before the changes were applied. For some changes such as configuring ports or changing the driver model, this often meant restarting more than once, as well as several confusing prompts that the user had to respond to before the changes were accepted.

In SONAR 8 we now streamline this process by minimizing the number of prompts and not requiring a restart of the application. This includes adding and removing inputs/outputs and changing driver modes.

I knew that the ASIO drivers did not make best use of Vista's WaveRT audio processing improvements. I can't tell from the Edirol drivers download page whether the Vista 64-bit drivers include WaveRT support. If you haven't already installed this driver, but you are using Vista, you might try the new driver to see if it helps you. If WaveRT is supported by your hardware, you will see WaveRT as a driver choice in SONAR.

=======================================================================================================
I purchased Notion 3 to be my notaion program to Rewire with Sonar and Reason 3 as both as a Slave and Master. Reson 3 has no actual notation and Sonar 8 has very limited notation funcionality.

I find Notion 3 to be the notation software that I will use and I will not even consider the comeptition. Notion 3 is very easy to use and gives a fantastic bang for the buck. I do however realize that there are some issues that need to be resolved as with any software product.

Please add your own thoughts, comments and experiences to this so we can learn from each other. I also added admin please reply so that we can get some information and details on Rewire. Thank you for your time. Stephen

The issue with 64 vs 32 bit has been discussed here to great extent. Basically NOTION is a 32 bit application that will run on a 64 bit OS. Rewire will only run in 32 bit DAW applications......

Best advice to use NOTION with your set up (using Reason, and Sonar) is to use the 32 bit version of Sonar on your 64 bit OS using both Reason and NOTION as slaves to Sonar with Rewire.

As far as using loops....if your loops coming out of Reason line up with the composition in Sonar and NOTION you should be fine. You may have to do some copy/duplicate in NOTION to make sure that durations are the same and everything "plays together"

Hope this helps some!
-Kyle

[musicman]

Thanks for the quick response Kyle:). I do have a follow up question for you.

I did load Sonar 8.5 PE on Windows XP which is a 32 bit OS which did load. I would not have been able to load a 64 bit version of Sonar on a 32 bit OS correct. I thought that on XP it would have been installed as a 32 bit installation.

Just trying to figure out a way to use the 32 bit XP OS drive instead of having to reload Sonar 8.5 to Windows 7 64 bit drive. (dual boot config on separate drives).

Thanks for your time and help, it is greatly appreciated.

Stephen