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MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

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MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby themeworks » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:58 pm

Here's my wish list for N3+

a) needs native Quicktime, H264, MP4, WMV video support - and multiple videos, not just one chunk
b) needs timecode support - all manners
c) needs sync - lock to other things beyond rewire
d) needs flutters/streamers in addition to timecode windows, superimposed on video
e) needs timecode and measure staves - resizable and relocatable
f) needs markers and marker layout/visual control, editing window, etc. (like rehearsal marks)
g) needs to import markers and cuts from video, like FC
h) needs to ALLOW RESIZE TIME SIGNATURES to LARGE for full score, parts
i) needs to provide way to select multiple attachments and align vertically on a stave/system
j) needs to fix the dodgy metronome
k) needs to allow more quantization control options (input quant) than just tuplets
l) needs to support sustain, sos and damper pedal (and put in markings as you play) on piano staff/track
m) need MORE articulations that respond to the special entries...
n) Jazz font needs to work on OSX without the caching issues - it's unusable for me now
o) need to beef up the brass and string samples, lushness

AND MY NUMBER ONE REQUEST

p) NEED A SKETCH to SCORE capability, where you can sketch in (playing on piano) 1-x voices per "string" "brass" "wood" etc. type staffs, and then be able to select a voice line (simply) and right click and "send" to the individual instrument staff. Like an "explode" feature, so i can knock out a quick 4-6 staff sketch, and then grab lines easily and drop down to the full score staffs as I choose, then edit, etc. Right now, this is impossible without copying entire sketch line to the staff and "deleting" what I don't want on each - VERY un musical approach.

If I can separate one or more of multi voices now (which I can) I should be able to "select a voice" per line and drag/copy to a single staff. This is my idea of a quick sketch to score capability. Of course, you would edit/tweak then, but it saves an hour of needles copy/pasting or slicing/dicing.

OR>........

Let me select MULTIPLE staves (like the strings all) and assign a "VOICE" to each, then simply play full chords, voice leading, etc. in from the keyboard, and it "assigns' the proper voice to staff, proper divisi, etc. based on my rules.

That would be another cool way.

And it should support the same inner-staff "voice splitting" if I yanked in a fat piano-style midi file too - let me assign, etc.

Thanks!

Christian
www.themeworksmusic.com
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby themeworks » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:33 pm

Oh - few more

aa) drag or cut/paste midi files from desktop onto staff/measure, to insert/edit, on active staff
bb) auto switching between ensemble and solo string patch/samples (using soli or solo, voices or other notation) in strings vs. needing sep. staves for each
cc) add Jazz articulation playback to the regular brass if/when needed, or notated (falls, rips, etc)
dd) cover page capability for score/parts options

Cheers.
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby pbourke » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:27 pm

Support for Ivory Pianos.
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby posssu » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:34 pm

Good stuff!!! Agree on all the film scoring stuff, although importing scene changes might be a bit big/specific feature (I assume there will be lots of improvements on other areas as well). I'd also really want to see the big time signature change symbols for the conductor score...

Also:
-Some very easy way to edit midi data. If you compare the Overlay mode to a piano roll, the ease of moving things around in a piano roll wins hands down. Maybe Overlay mode can become something great, but I'd really like to have an easy and effective way to access the midi data.
-Access and easy editing to midi CC data within the same track, like this for example: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=473
-Lasso-selection mode to every tool: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1130
-freezing tracks
-keycombo to switch between the selected track and the corresponding dynamic part
-grouping parts for export
-"foldable instrument groups": you could dynamically view whatever instruments on one staff for editing or printing or just click an "Unfold"-button at the beginning of the track and it would unfold into separate tracks. A Windows program called Mozart has done this for a long time and it's pretty cool.
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby themeworks » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:31 am

Really great additional items. Fantastic.

As I play with things more, I like the lasso tool idea too...

also:

aaa) ability to cut/paste WITHIN a measure that has no rests yet... right now, you cannot paste additional notes from an inner-measure edit without there being something there ahead of it to replace. You are simply then able to only copy/paste the entire measure. It's REALLY hard to do internal-measure edits, pastes.

bbb) default now is when you paste within a measure, it puts notes behind the current or last. Perhaps an option/shift/v should let you paste ahead of notes, or some variation of that combination.

ccc) LARGE MEASURE NUMBERS on ANY STAFF or ANYWHERE you want to drag put them, including a respaced middle section between any two staves (like a new staff type called MEASURES or TIMECODE or MARKERS - you can add and drag anywhere, hide, etc. like any other staff). Markers would be editable, the rest would auto-update for inserted time, time change etc. You would have the ability to "default" (so timecode would obviously stay fixed, regardless of measure or tempo change) - but warn if you move, lock all - where everything stays put after you put in your spotting/time sigs, etc).

ddd) RESIZE ANY TEXT bigger or smaller if you want - instrument names, attachments, time signature, etc...

eee) on the current text editor for things like title, composer, etc. LET ME DRAG THAT AWAY FROM WHAT I'M EDITING... right now, it's fixed dialog, and if over top the text, you have to mess around with screen scrolling to reveal the edit box of the text.

I've attached an example of the measure staff... PLEASE guys, get this in + the video stuff and YOU WILL OWN THE MARKET for REAL COMPOSERS....

-C*
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby Surfwhammy » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:44 am

themeworks wrote:Here's my wish list for N3+

a) needs native Quicktime, H264, MP4, WMV video support - and multiple videos, not just one chunk
b) needs timecode support - all manners
c) needs sync - lock to other things beyond rewire
d) needs flutters/streamers in addition to timecode windows, superimposed on video
e) needs timecode and measure staves - resizable and relocatable
f) needs markers and marker layout/visual control, editing window, etc. (like rehearsal marks)
g) needs to import markers and cuts from video, like FC
h) needs to ALLOW RESIZE TIME SIGNATURES to LARGE for full score, parts



With the caveat that I am just beginning to explore Final Cut Express for doing YouTube music videos, hence am not an expert on doing scores for motion pictures, I think that these suggestions make a bit of sense, even though my understanding of some of the concepts and terminology is a bit primitive at present . . .

On the other hand, I have extensive experience in Computer Science, which includes GUI application designing and programming, primarily with C/C++ both in Windows (earlier) and more recently on the Mac, where among other things I am a registered Apple Developer, which sounds quite impressive but basically is just a matter of sending Apple $99 a year and having an Apple computer and an iPod touch or whatever, but so what . . .

So what!

The important thing is that from the perspective of a software design engineer, (a) I like your suggestions and (b) I have a few observations . . .

(1) Behind the scenes, Notion 3 is doing an extraordinarily complex set of essentially real-time computer processing, and pretty much everything Notion 3 does is in the group of software engineering activities that require special skills and knowledge, as well as being the types of programming that a lot of software engineers avoid diligently, because it is so remarkably complex. Hence, while all this might not be so obvious to composers and musicians, it is very obvious to me, and I am quite amazed at how well Notion 3 works . . .

(2) Two of the most useful principles I learned while studying Computer Science in college are the (a) "Keep It Simple" and (b) "Don't Reinvent the Wheel" rules . . .

(3) I have no interest at all in anything that happens in the Windows universe, even though I did advanced application, system, and database programming in the Windows universe beginning with the first version of Windows starting in early-1987 and continuing through Windows XP, although I stopped purchasing Microsoft products the instant they decided to do the .NET stuff and ruined Visual Basic, at which time I switched to the Mac but continue to do a bit of advanced Windows programming, although now I require clients to provide all the hardware, software, and a generous supply of strands of garlic . . .

(4) On the Apple side of the universe, as best as I have been able to determine, the fact of the matter is that Final Cut Studio is what most people use for video stuff, and while I am using Final Cut Express at present, sooner or later I will upgrade to Final Cut Studio . . .

(5) I prefer to use Digital Performer (MOTU) for all the music stuff, and it interacts with Final Cut Studio, which includes doing all or at least most of the thing you listed . . .

(6) ReWire certainly appears to be useful as an interapplication communication technology, but perhaps there is another way all the things you suggested are done, which is fine with me, since even though I might not be aware of how everything is done at present, I know that it is done some way, because MOTU lists all that stuff as features of Digital Performer . . .

http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/film-scoring/

(7) At present, among other ongoing entertainment projects, I am working on a quite silly song that is a bit of a parody of "Bad Romance" (Lady Gaga), and I am using Notion 3 for what I call the "basic rhythm section", and if nothing else this has been a fascinating exercise in discovering how Notion 3 interacts with Digital Performer via ReWire, as well as a lot of the other stuff that Notion 3 does. And while it is a DISCO song, it has enough stuff to make it possible for me to explore the boundaries of what Notion 3 can handle on a 2.8-GHz 8-core Mac Pro; what Digital Performer can do as the ReWire host for Notion 3; and so forth and so on, which is fabulous . . .

http://www.surfwhammys.com/Im-Going-Goo-Goo-Over-Ga-Ga-11-8-2010-MP.mp3

Fabulous!

(8) With the aforementioned two rules and everything else in mind, I think that it makes more sense to devise a way for Notion 3.X to interface more intimately with Digital Performer and Final Cut Studio, since I see no added value in wasting a lot of time attempting to transform music composition software into video editing software, because Final Cut Studio already does video editing, so instead of adding a lot of video editing stuff to Notion 3.X, I think it makes more sense to enhance the capabilities of Notion 3.X with respect to working with Digital Performer and Final Cut Studio in a way that does not require a lot of unnecessary duplication of work . . .

Notion 3 has a mixer that works very nicely with VST plug-ins, and it makes sense for Notion 3 to have a mixer that works very nicely with VST plug-ins, but this is very different from Notion 3.X duplicating what Digital Performer does, which I think would be a mistake . . .

And I am very reluctant to suggest that Notion 3.X wander into dealing with video inside the Notion 3.X application, because I think that will require a huge amount of designing and programming, none of which has much of anything to do with music composition, generating audio, and so forth and so on . . .

I think the smarter strategy is to enhance and extend the way that Notion 3.X or some future version of Notion N.X interacts intimately with Digital Performer and Final Cut Studio, toward the worthy goal of being able to use all three in an interactive way that provides a complete solution but with a minimum of application feature overlapping . . .

In other words, I think it makes sense to keep the focus of Notion 3.X on music composition and audio rendering but to enhance and expand its capabilities with respect to bouncing back and forth from Digital Performer and Final Cut Express or Final Cut Studio, although at present I have no idea whether Notion 3 and Digital Performer interact with Final Cut Express . . .

(9) As noted, although I have not done a lot of video work, I understand the general concepts, and I certainly see a need to be able to adjust music to video, which for music that is composed and rendered primarily by Notion 3 strongly suggests the need to be able to make these adjustments directly in Notion 3 without needing to redo everything, which when Digital Performer is used as the primary digital audio workstation (DAW) application tends to suggest that the interapplication communication needs to be very detailed, remarkably precise, and so forth and so on, where everything works together with a minimal level functionality overlapping . . .

SUMMARY

This is my current perspective, and it is based on the observation that Notion 3 is excellent for music composition and interfacing with Digital Performer, which makes it very practical and easy to use, with this mapping to a high level of productivity here in the sound isolation studio . . .

Based on everything I discovered while doing my second YouTube music video, which I did early this year for another of my silly parodies, "(I Want) Angela Gossow's Underpants (Ya-Ya-Ya)" (The Surf Whammys), I now am planning to build a set for the YouTube music video of "I'm Going Goo-Goo Over Ga-Ga", where among other things I plan to doing an interpretive dance sequence while wearing ballet tights with an impressive codpiece, pointy-toed slippers, a very large Elvis pompadour wig, and a Venetian mask, during which I envision quite a bit of suggestive hip thrusting, as well as more DISCO lights, fog, bubbles, and a quite surreal black and white strobe light sequence, so the general concept of being able to make adjustments to the music is quite intriguing, although my current plan is to adjust the video to the music, which is a lot easier for me to do at my current video editing skill level, but so what . . .

[NOTE: This is the YouTube music video for "(I Want) Angela Gossow's Underpants (Ya-Ya-Ya)" done by my pretend Rock and Roll musical group, The Surf Whammys. The current plan is for this song to be on the upcoming fifth Surf Whammys album, "Electric Underpants", along with "I'm Going Goo-Goo Over Ga-Ga" and the parody of the European Single for "Who Owns My Heart" (Miley Cyrus), which is titled "Feel Me" (The Surf Whammys) and was motivated primarily by my becoming quite annoyed by the vast stupidity of the lyric "Is it love, or is it art?" in the Miley Cyrus song, as well as the fact that she stole my idea for the Venetian mask. And while a bit over 3,000 YouTube music video views is not mind-boggling, it is pretty amazing for an unknown artist and a silly song about ladies underpants, really . . . ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecAFV-6rQ7Q

So what!

Stated another way, I will be very happy if Notion 3.X, Digital Performer 7.2, and Final Cut Studio work together intimately in a very practical and productive way, sooner or later, if only because I think the world needs to see me moon walking and doing the Mashed Potato dance in a lot of silly DISCO music video, plus there is the Flamenco Dance and Mime reenactment of The Mayan Story of the Creation of the Universe™, which I plan to do while juggling unshucked corn during the interlude for "Maríta de la Luna y Pablito el Petardo (No Es Tanto Lo Que Es Como Lo Que No Es)", my Flamenco song done in the Surrealería™ subgenre that I created earlier this year, which has the verse and chorus in a traditional 12-beat Bulería rhythm but features a 36-beat interlude, with this song being in some respects a parody of "Buleria" (David Bisbal) but not exactly, since David Bisbal has not done anything that annoys me greatly, other than being perhaps the greatest tenor on the planet, which is not really so annoying in the grand scheme of everything, for sure . . .

[NOTE: This is the basic rhythm section for "Maríta de la Luna y Pablito el Petardo (No Es Tanto Lo Que Es Como Lo Que No Es)", and all the instruments are done in Notion 3. It will have real instruments and singing, but I got distracted by being annoyed by Lady Gaga and Miley Cyrus, so I have gone DISCO crazy at present . . . ]

http://www.surfwhammys.com/Surrealeria-06-22-2010.wmv

For sure! :)
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby posssu » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:22 am

Just few comments concerning the video. Sure, there's a software to do everything and if I get them all, I could do that all. But Digital Performer is yet another sequencer and I already HAVE a sequencer software that I really like. I don't want to get another whole sequencer just to get few features, that completely destroys the workflow... even though doing these tasks with the current situation is a bit more work. But getting features like this into notation program inspires to try them and makes doing your work more fun and easier. Asking for video features (we're not asking video editing, just common film composition tools for matching music to video) isn't that far fetched. Many other notation softwares do that as well. So adding a video window wouldn't make Notion so overly complicated and would yet give a huge benefit.

It just is so that many programs have to deliver at least a taste of many kinds of features even if there's another program doing it much better. If a program stays highly specialized, it won't have that much users and therefore won't make that much money. Video thingy is a big issue if you work with film. And currently Notion isn't really specialized in anything particularly. I mean, the current state is very good and like you said, it works amazingly well and is really elegant. It doesn't have to become bloated with features, but I see a great beginning for this software and now with the very good start they can become whatever they want.
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby pcartwright » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:09 am

I agree with most of the items listed earlier (especially video support and time code support). Here are a few more:

- Niente dynamic mark
- Cross staff beaming
- ability to add preset instruments from other 3rd party VSTs (like presets offered for GPO, VSL, etc). This would allow us to write instrument specific rules (instead of just plugin specific rules).
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby posssu » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:24 am

pcartwright wrote:I agree with most of the items listed earlier (especially video support and time code support). Here are a few more:

- Niente dynamic mark
- Cross staff beaming
- ability to add preset instruments from other 3rd party VSTs (like presets offered for GPO, VSL, etc). This would allow us to write instrument specific rules (instead of just plugin specific rules).


What's a niente dynamic mark? +1 on cross staff beaming. Also, a GUI for quickly creating own presets and please save the project-specific XML-rules inside the Notion-file, not an external file. Otherwise the score becomes two files that always have to be together, which is unintuitive. Should be one file only.
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Re: MUST HAVE LIST for 3.X

Postby fabiolcati » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:35 am

posssu wrote:What's a niente dynamic mark?

A fade from/to silence marking ("niente" means "nothing").
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