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NOTION 3 "wish list"

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby Unfinished » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:39 am

About the pedal thing... I've found the pedal doesn't work even if you start on the bar where it begins (where the pedal is supposed to come in on the 1st beat). Would it be a good idea for the similar idea to be applied to tied notes?
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby Unfinished » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:21 am

It would be good if (I'm thinking about snare drum really) rolls on percussion could have the option of being timed, as in a double-stroke roll at triplet speed and all the other types one might need. I find flams and drags and so on that any percussionist should be well-trained in don't really 'work' on Notion. Similarly I find grace notes in general don't work that well. There should really be a distinction between an acciaccatura and an appoggiatura.
(Also the link to the forum in the Notion Music Neighbourhood goes to the old forum).
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby mkral » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:00 pm

Yes a lot of the percussion stuff is pretty clunky, and its been brought up that many functions have the "machine-gun effect" and what not. However, timed rolls are doable (more work than ideal), and as far as acciaccatura and an appoggiatura: I'm not totally learned in music but from what I can tell, Notion takes care of this satisfactorily. Grace notes allow you to specify the length.

On another note, I posted earlier that I would really just like the program cleaned up a bit, I suppose more specifics are what you are looking for. My biggest beef with Notion currently happens when I try to select a part of the notation using a mouse click and drag. It's just plain horrible, it doesn't respond until the fourth click, I frequently move things around that I don't want to move. The same issues with using a Paste function, its often not where I want it. Progression, a younger program, handles this stuff just fine.
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby posssu » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:20 am

It's probably too late... but video window!!!
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby posssu » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:06 pm

EDIT: added a workflow-clarification

It's a bit late/early to present wishes, but here's one more:

I found out that SequencerStaff is only one-way: once you convert the data to notation, you can't go back. I'd wish it could possibly later become more like the approach Overture has: the midi data is there all the time and you just switch the view. The reason for this is that if you want to program your music to sound good AND also be able to provide the latest version of the score to the musicians, there's no predetermined order in which you do this. You have to have both versions available for editing until the very end.

Currently the midi data -> notation is destructive and you can't continue editing the midi data after the "conversion". I therefore wish that maybe in some future versions (hopefully sooner than later) the midi data could stay there all the time and you could both edit midi and alter notation simultaneously. I understand than either of the views should be dominant in some way. At least in Overture you can disable the dynamic-markings and crosspins so they won't alter they CC-data so that the MIDI-data can take over there. I don't know how it works with the actual midi-notes, which one is dominant...

But another approach would be that the midi-data is there all the time and you can convert the midi-data into notation - just like it is - but the midi-data is preserved and editable even after this. With this approach there would only be need to add some way to decide which view is dominant when playing.

However, I'd still prefer the first approach where you have the both datas simultaneously and if there's data in a midi-cc channel that a dynamic marking doesn't control (or the dynamic marker is "switched off"), the MIDI-data is dominant, since this is where the real-time performances are usually stored - not in notation.

In my workflow, I could go few ways.

1) Sometimes it's purely notation and doesn't need to sound exactly as it will be, since I only need notation for musicians. In this case I notate directly or maybe also play some of the ideas in realtime and then fix them in the notation-side to be as precise as possible. (this seems to be the way to go currently)

2) Sometimes I want to do a piece that sounds awesome and I don't yet know if it will be played by real musicians. In this case I would play most of the stuff in to get the best realism possible, treating the notation software as a sequencer, but still would probably fix the score at the same time, in case it will be played in by real musicians later. This would basically mean adjusting some slurs, adding dynamic markings which would just print but not play. Some difficult things or sequences need to be notated with mouse, since it's more sequencing patterns. After doing this, I'd like to be able to record CC-data of modwheel and velocities to these patterns to make the patterns sound more real but still have the notation there. So it would require both modes (notation and sequencing) to be accessable simultaneously. (this doesn't seem to be possible currently)

3) Sometimes it's both, where you want it to sound good to show a proper mockup of your piece before going into the studio. In this case - just like in case 2 - you need to jump back and forth with the notation and MIDI-data, since both proper notation AND constant MIDI/CC-programming are both equally important all the time (this doesn't seem to be possible currently)

I see awesome possibilities with your software, you have a really cool way of approaching the matter since most of the other software seems to be just for notation. I just wish you push it just a bit further and I think you have something really cool in your hands (well, you already do, but...)

AND some kind of idea library (like Sibelius has, both current project and global) would be really cool, where you can just stuff you don't use now, but maybe later!
Last edited by posssu on Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby KylePoehling » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:22 am

posssu wrote:It's a bit late/early to present wishes, but here's one more:

I found out that SequencerStaff is only one-way: once you convert the data to notation, you can't go back. I'd wish it could possibly later become more like the approach Overture has: the midi data is there all the time and you just switch the view. The reason for this is that if you want to program your music to sound good AND also be able to provide the latest version of the score to the musicians, there's no predetermined order in which you do this. You have to have both versions available for editing until the very end.

Currently the midi data -> notation is destructive and you can't continue editing the midi data after the "conversion". I therefore wish that maybe in some future versions (hopefully sooner than later) the midi data could stay there all the time and you could both edit midi and alter notation simultaneously. I understand than either of the views should be dominant in some way. At least in Overture you can disable the dynamic-markings and crosspins so they won't alter they CC-data so that the MIDI-data can take over there. I don't know how it works with the actual midi-notes, which one is dominant...

But another approach would be that the midi-data is there all the time and you can convert the midi-data into notation - just like it is - but the midi-data is preserved and editable even after this. With this approach there would only be need to add some way to decide which view is dominant when playing.

However, I'd still prefer the first approach where you have the both datas simultaneously and if there's data in a midi-cc channel that a dynamic marking doesn't control (or the dynamic marker is "switched off"), the MIDI-data is dominant, since this is where the real-time performances are usually stored - not in notation.

I see awesome possibilities with your software, you have a really cool way of approaching the matter since most of the other software seems to be just for notation. I just wish you push it just a bit further and I think you have something really cool in your hands (well, you already do, but...)

AND some kind of idea library (like Sibelius has, both current project and global) would be really cool, where you can just stuff you don't use now, but maybe later!



Great input!! I'll certainly pass it along to development!

-kyle
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby posssu » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:59 pm

Thanks!!!! I'm really happy to hear that! I've been watching the Notion3 videos over and over again and I can't wait to test the demo. I really like the small things they've thought about... for example the new palette that follows with the right click and the whole "play a notation software live!!!"-approach in general...
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby posssu » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:37 am

EDIT: edited my long wishlist post above
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby frivo » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:02 pm

I have not tried Notion yet, but after reading about this new version, I consider to buy it. (Actually, I hav ripped out my two first pages from my Sibelius manual for crossgrading :D )

But my wish is a free Notion Reader. Both Finale and Sibelius have a similar program. This is great for sharing scores and parts to students, singers etc. What you can do better than them is:
- Posibility to solo and mute voices! (Great for rehersal and learning voices at home!)
- If the user shall use the mute/solo as i wrote earlier, you can use a soundfont or midi. But it would also be great to have the opportunity to embed an mp3-file from the original notion program! In synch with the playback.(Here the mute/solo will not work).
- Printing their own part from the score (Then we can distribute ONE file via email or internet to all, and the user can print only their own part.
- Transposing, and change keys. (E.g. if we send trombone notes C-transposed (F-clef), but the musician prefer to read it in Bb (and G-clef).
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Re: NOTION 3 "wish list"

Postby Flajolet » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:39 am

I also have a wish - some of the Notion users might be coming from other notation software sibelius and finale for example. I see you offer special prices for those who poses other notation and want to switch to Notion 3. ... But...

- Every program has it's own shortcut keys - which are editable of course but usually the user uses the default key settings. So for somebody coming from other software will be really hard to forget all those keys he used for several years and to learn new ones and this might make the composition process a bit slower.
So my proposition is : Include ShortKey packages in the settings/options menu - so that for example somebody coming from finale can with one click in this menu to change all the shortcuts to be like he is used to. That I think will be a nice idea - to turn the ke commands to be the same way as sibelius or finale ( and still be editable ) I am curious to hear what you think. :)
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