Help needed! Custom rules for VST drumset

[Kirkl]

Hi Everyone,

Does anybody know if custom rules still work? I want to use the NOTION3 drum staff to drive drum plugins, specifically EZdrummer right now, but NI KONTACT drum sets and other instruments in the future.

I've watched the tutorials on custom rules, read through a bunch of discussions on custom rules in this forum (not every word, 'cause there are a lot), and it all seems pretty straightforward; however, although I think of myself as being relatively capable at a technical level, I don't seem to be able to get things to work. Help! Please.

I followed the steps in the tutorial, using the <if pitch="72"/> test and the <fixed-pitch pitch="38" /> instruction to try to map NOTION3's snare drum to EZdrummer's right hand snare hit. Didn't work.

Because I am worried about whether or not I have the correct plugin ID for EZdrummer (the folks from Toontracks seemed a little unsure about what I wanted, but they gave me "dfhe", which doesn't look much like the others in the example prules file), I tried to eliminate that variable by using the Default.prules file that the good person who created NRuleSetBuilder provided. I just changed the "Generic Accent" rule to make the velocity-change bump="1" instead of "15". That should work, if I understand it correctly, for all instruments, including NOTION3's sounds. I put the file in a subdirectory of the directory that holds my score. No joy... The accent remains. I tried changing the name of the Default.prules file to "custom_rules.prules" like the file in the tutorial. Again, no joy.

So, I must be doing something silly, since it all seems clear enough in the tutorials...

Any insights?

By the way... supposing I do get this working, where would I post the resulting prules file for others to use? (I can't be the only person wanting to use NOTION3's drum staff to write drum parts. Nor can I be the only one who needs more variety in drum set sounds than NOTION3 currently provides. I've got the latest NI Komplete on order and it has a bunch of other stuff that would complement NOTION3's sounds--even some solo strings that sound awesome in the demo. Let's make use of the community to get a bunch of prules sets available for common plugins.)

Thanks a lot,

Kirk

[Admin]

Kirk,

For troubleshooting the problem best bet is to give Brian in tech support a call....he'll be more than happy to walk you through setting it up.

1-866-398-2994

Once you get them set up you can either make a post here and attach the prules or you can email them to me and I'll make a sticky post:)

kyle
kyle@notionmusic.com

[wcreed51]

The problem is almost certainly the Plugin ID. It should be a 10 digit number, like the ones in the documentation.

You need to get a program that identifies the ID. I forget which one I used, but forget about the one mentioned in the documentation.

Bill

[Kirkl]

Thanks Kyle and Bill for your replies.

Brian in in tech support is on the case. I've sent him my rules files. Stay tuned.

Bill, I thought that it was the ID too, that's why I tried the default.prules file. Since I couldn't make that work either, I'm thinking that I'm just doing some small stupid thing. I checked the syntax about 100 times and watched the tutorials again.

With a little help, I'm sure I'll get it. Then it's just a matter of mapping all of NOTION3's notes and expressions to EZdrummer - that's pretty brainless.

On the ID issue: I downloaded VSThost to a Windows machine and it does tell you the VST plugin IDs. However, I don't have EZdrummer in Windows, just on the Mac. So, if it is the ID that's wrong, then I'm kind of stuck. I did see, in VSThost, looking at another plugiin (Tassman) that there were two IDs. One was "Tas4" and the other more like the ones in the NOTION example prules file. Don't know what that's about.

Cheers,

Kirk

[Kirkl]

Well, still no real progress...

Please, can anyone send me a prules file, that they know works, that changes any of the default rules for NOTION3? (If I can make that go or not go, then I can eliminate some variables.)

Thanks,

Kirk

[Erufailon]

Hi,

I just wanted to mention that the default.prules file in the zip file for Nrulebuilder is just there so u don't have to create it for yourself, but it just creates some general rules for all 4 midi-out ports, mostly accents. However it is for the midi-out ports only, you would have to change quite a bit to use it for plugins loaded inside Notion. So it is meant to be loaded into Nrulebuilder before you start working on a new ruleset. And the accent rules are supoosed to be only processed when you actually ad an accent to the score.
If you can't get the ID, can't you try using an outside host driven by virtual midi cables? I know I sound like a broken record, but I still find that the best way to use Notion if for nothing else, then because it eliminates the x32 limitations, and you don't need a plugin ID neither that way.

[Kirkl]

Thanks Erufalion, I misread your default.prules file. (I missed the "<midi-out id="A">" hiding under the dynamic map and got it into my head that these generic rules were truly generic and applied to the default way NOTION3 interprets expressions. I had read something about doing that in some thread and got confused.)

Well then, the real problem is likely to be that the plugin ID is incorrect. Toontracks sent me two other numbers to try and they look more like those in the custom_rules.prules examples, but neither work. I'm having trouble finding a plugin manager for the Mac that shows plugin IDs. I'll keep looking. (If anybody knows of one...)

Thanks too for your idea about using an outside host driven by virtual midi cables. Not sure how to do that yet and worried that it won't fit into my workflow: if I understand what you're proposing, then when I Export Audio from Notion that track wouldn't be saved as audio. I'd have to find some other way of capturing that audio. Hmm... I might fiddle with this idea.

The quest continues.

[Erufailon]

Oh, yeah, I don't use Notion's sounds at all, but of course I never intended to use them, so I don't have that problem. However if I wanted to, I suppose I could still time the exported audio to the other tracks in an audio app.

[Kirkl]

Hi all,

O.k., I'm finished now.

Here's what I've found:
- Finding plugin IDs for Mac plugins can be problematic, unless we can find a Mac tool that can tell us what they are (I spent some time looking and couldn't find one. VSThost works for Windows.). The vendor - Toontracks - gave me three candidates to try as an ID but none worked.
- Erufalion's suggestion to use virtual midi cables to an outside host works just fine. It's a great alternative and you don't have to fuss with the ID number. That easily gives you four external instruments, one for each midi port. (You could use the <if midi-channel = "XX"/> test inside each rule to get 16 times that, I think, but I haven't tried it.)
- Unfortunately, after spending a lot of time overcoming purely technical hurdles, I've discovered that NOTION3's custom rules cannot fully implement the drumset staff notation. For example, note head differences, like the slash head for rimshot, can't be tested for. (Kudos to NOTION for following most of the standards in Weinberg's "Guide to Standardized Drumset Notation". I wish I could use them for non-Notion drumsets.)

So, after all that, although I've now learned how to use the custom rules, I've decided not to use them right now for drumset plugins (my original purpose).

Thanks very much to everyone who helped me: Erufalion and Bill on the forum and Brian from Notion Tech Support.

I hope that the good folks at Notion keep expanding the tests and instructions available for custom rules. I believe that custom rules might be a good way for Notion to be interoperable while keeping its expressive power. Interoperability is pretty important these days for the longevity of a package, I think.

[Erufailon]

Yeah, I agree, I wish we could test for noteheads, and every notation marks that notion provides. And yes, u can use 4x16 instruments with the midi-out ports, and you can use my rulebuilder for those as well. I just finished my rules for realguitar and reallpc, and I also run into this, for example left hand mutes are usualy notated by the X notehead, but we can't test for that, so I had to use soemthing else, in this case the stopped mark. Or for palm mutes I had to write a custom palm mute expression in the expressionlist.tpk, because it's not possible to test for Notion's palm mute notation, etc. This means I can use notion to write music, and play it back, and it works great, however if I want the score to look anything like a real score I have to go back and change my custom markings to the standard ones. So I'm with you on that, I hope it will soon be possible to test for anything that can show up in a Notion made score.