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Indent First Staff on Parts

A Forum to Discuss NOTION

Indent First Staff on Parts

Postby ericsandmeyer » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:42 pm

Looked for this in the manual but no go. How do you perform this function? Thank you.
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Re: Indent First Staff on Parts

Postby tubatimberinger » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:22 am

Notion is a fantastic program, one of the most innovative out there i think. It is already changing so much of how composers produce music. I use it EVERY DAY. However, Notion does NOT print professional level notation. Actually, not even close. Maybe if you are transcribing very simple romantic or classical scores you can slide through a rehearsal with only a few bumps. But I have attempted to use the parts produced in Notion more than once and it has always been pretty much disastrous; Too much time apologizing for the parts, not enough rehearsal.

So in short, I do not believe Notion capable of indenting the first line on a part.

Most likely you switched from one of the other 'mature' notation programs (which often sound like crizzap). Do not expect even comparable notation functionality. I use Notion to realize music I have composed and orchestrated (usually at the piano, I'm kinda old skool that way). It sounds wonderful. I don't try to replace Sibelius (my pick of poison) with Notion for there is no comparison. To me it is another tool I use to realize the music I write. Do yourself a favor and use it for what it is truly great at: performing!

tim
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Re: Indent First Staff on Parts

Postby ericsandmeyer » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:47 am

tubatimberinger wrote:Do yourself a favor and use it for what it is truly great at: performing!

tim


Strange...some of the basics of parts layout ARE covered and some aren't. Where is the company going with this software? Is it going to develop this into a replacement for Sib/Finale? I can't see what niche this would fulfill without more of the basic layout options for parts.
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Re: Indent First Staff on Parts

Postby tubatimberinger » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:00 am

I used to ask myself the same question. Then I started reading the forums. If you read enough you will see that the majority of the people (at least who post to this forum) use it as a third party interface for their VST libraries. The advantage to this is the ability to use notation as an interface to your samples. Most hi end sample libraries don't have this so Notion bridges the gap. This seems to be where most of their efforts go in terms of development. They aren't trying to replace Fin/Sib. They are changing the whole game for which I applaud them. I just wish they wouldn't use terms like 'print professional notation' as they are misleading and cause more frustration than anything.
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Re: Indent First Staff on Parts

Postby ericsandmeyer » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:57 am

Thanks for the replies. I guess what it all comes down to for me is the need for notation. I do arranging and composing so the ability to edit page turns, combine movements and present good looking scores and parts are going to be paramount.

I see that Sibelius is allowing a competitive crossgrade for NOTION users now. Well, at least AVID considers N3 to be a competitive product. I guess I am going to pull the trigger on Sib. Maybe I'll keep N3 installed in case I see this niche that others see.
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Re: Indent First Staff on Parts

Postby pcartwright » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:11 pm

tubatimberinger wrote:the majority of the people (at least who post to this forum) use it as a third party interface for their VST libraries. The advantage to this is the ability to use notation as an interface to your samples. [...] They aren't trying to replace Fin/Sib. They are changing the whole game for which I applaud them. I just wish they wouldn't use terms like 'print professional notation' as they are misleading and cause more frustration than anything.


I agree with this statement for the most part. Personally, I hope Notion3 eventually becomes more competitive with Sibelius and Finale on the notation side while continuing development of the VST interface referred to above. I'd love to have a "one stop shop” for notation and production, and right now, like others, I often need to export scores to Sibelius or Finale to clarify more technical notation elements.

I think Notion3 has the potential of being both a notation powerhouse and VST workstation of sorts. However, on the notation side, Notion3 needs to support more advanced notation settings/adjustments/customizations as well as cleaning up current features (for example, adding a glissando on a chord will only add one glissando marking and will only effect one note, there isn't support for cross staff beaming, adding articulations and dynamics to multiple voices is problematic, copying and pasting to specific voices, as far as I know, is impossible, etc).

On the VST workstation side, Notion3 needs to allow for greater VSTi integration (more specifically, allow custom rules files per VSTi AND per instrument [currently, rules files for VSTs other than GPO, EWQLSO, VSL, and Miroslav are universal rules and can't be adjusted per instrument]).

I don’t want to come across as beating up on Notion; in all honesty, it’s my favorite notation software program, and I recommend it to anyone I can. What I like about Notion3 as opposed to Sibelius and Finale is the organization of the program (you don’t have to dig through dozens of menus), the excellent playback system that I hope grows to include more advanced techniques and more VSTis, and the rewire capabilities (which are much better the Sibelius at the moment).

The trick for Notion’s developers will be adding additional and competitive features without bloating the software or making it too difficult to use (which, IMHO, is the downfall of programs like Finale and Sibelius).
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Re: Indent First Staff on Parts

Postby ericsandmeyer » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:59 pm

Good thoughts one and all. To me, this product seems to be at some sort of crossroads...it allows sequencer staffs, but doesn't allow detailed midi editing. It has parts view, but does not allow each part to have its own settings, etc.

I actually would love to see it become a real challenger to the Sib/Fin world. It will never cast a shadow on the Cubase, Logic, Sonar world for hosting and production. But it could be a really good hybrid, sort of like, "Hey it can do notation on a serious level AND handle your performance needs!"

Not to just be an armchair marketing department, I am really rooting for N. I always root for the small, hungry guys. :ugeek:
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Re: Indent First Staff on Parts

Postby elerouxx » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:00 am

Good thoughts one and all. To me, this product seems to be at some sort of crossroads...


That's exactly what Notion is, and I really love it.

Some decades ago, you would write your music as fine as you could by pen and pencil, sometimes edit your parts by hand and photocopy, but the final edition would have been made by a publisher. Some composers would make their own editions, but not everyone would have been so graphically talented.

That's the way I see notation applications. I think Sibelius and Finale are applications for music edition, and as they get more and more complex to fit all editorial needs of our days, they get more annoying and unfriendly to write music. The way they sound, which was a great help years ago, is outdated. In this scenario, Notion came to become the composer's favorite piece of software: it's intuitive, its sound is beautiful and inspiring, you can add your instruments and eventually use it to create a final product from the written score. That's what makes it unique, because at the end, music is all about sound.

That said, I am sure the application will get better every time, in the three areas of notation, performance and composing, but I suspect it will be a somewhat slow process.

I find it healthy that the team doesn't spend much time on the forums feeding the anxieties or complaints of users that dream about new features in this version-hungry new world... but I'd love to see some very small improvements that can do such a big difference.

On the notation side, I don't care if I can't 'publish' my score exactly the way I dream of, i.e. with the slur markings exactly where I want them, but there are issues that can be a real headache on a rehearsal. A piano part without cross-staff notes is unacceptable as a part. We use cross staff since baroque music! Also, there are limits for contemporary music even when it's not so 'contemporary' nowadays - I once wrote a piece with several time signature changes but I wasn't able to antecipate the time signatures at the end of the previous line. That was really, really hard to play. I had to stop and write the time signatures by pencil, that was very embarrassing for me and for Notion. (How come you use a notation program that doesn't do THIS?? throw it away and go Sibelius!). Since then, I have to go to other notation program to finish up the parts which is double work. I use MuseScore.

On the sound side, Notion would benefit a LOT from a very little more control. Sometimes I have to go to a DAW application because of a little detail I could not solve in Notion, like editing a pitch bend wheel or sending a simple command (without writing a rule for that).

And at music composing, where Notion shines: the lack of cross-staff notes and beams is not only a problem with parts, but something that stands in the way of the creative process. You have to stop and think how you will work around what you want to write. Another very little annoyance is a strange issue that prevents you from putting notes some lines above or below the staff - they are grayed out, but you can write ANOTHER note and slide it back where you want it. This also is an inspiration-blocker.

Sorry for the long post.
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