Thoughts on Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, and Notion 3

[Surfwhammy]

As might be obvious, I mostly am focused on DISCO music at present, but I also am working on an "anti-holiday" album, since (a) I am a bit strange and (b) everyone tends to do a "holiday" album sooner or later, so being a bit of a contrarian I decided to do an "anti-holiday" album last year and my graphic designer already has done the album cover, for sure . . .



For sure!

And while some of the songs on the "anti-holiday" album already are done with real instruments and singing, now that I am becoming more proficient in Notion 3 and computer-based music composition, I am planning to do several of the songs in a combined DISCO and Heavy Metal style (in particular, the songs "Santa's Got A Woody", "(She's Giving Me) Holiday Vibrations", "Santa's Very Jolly", and "I Want A Holiday Tattoo [On My A--]"), really . . .

Really!

However, since (a) one of my longtime friends for years has been telling me that I cannot sing, which for a person with less than stellar if not exuberant self-esteem would be devastating, and (b) another longtime friend who is considerably more gracious explained that I should simply ignore him, since the fact of the matter is that he thinks that Bob Dylan can sing, I combined the advice and started exploring the Melodyne Editor (Celemony), which soon led to the somewhat surprising discover that while I can sing I tend to think that I sing a lot better than I do, which as best as I can determine mostly is a matter of personal laziness, since my strategy over the past few years was based on being told by an audio engineer in the 1970s that Paul McCartney sang all the vocals on "R.A.M" in the first or perhaps second take, which I thought was pretty amazing, hence decided to do it with everything (instruments and singing), although the results so far have not been so stellar in the singing department, except that I am getting better at it and actually can compose and sing a melody on the fly in real-time with sufficient accuracy to use the Melodyne Editor to correct the pitch and to adjust the melody, which is what tends strongly to suggest that I need to do a bit more practicing and defining of melodies before I start singing them on a recording, but so what . . .

So what!

How does this relate to "Thoughts on Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, and Notion 3"?

Great question!

Basically, the fact of the matter is that Bob Dylan released a "holiday" album last year, so in my ongoing effort to annoy the universe--and in particular everyone who thinks that Bob Dylan can sing--at some point I decided that at least one of the songs on my "anti-holiday" album should have strings and brass, hence I decided to do an experiment to have a bit of FUN with strings and brass in Notion 3, which is coming along nicely, especially when one considers that for the most part I do everything "by ear" and intuition, since while I learned a bit of basic stuff about music theory and music notation over half a century ago, I never used much of it until a few months ago when I discovered Notion 3, which is fabulous . . .

[NOTE: This is the Windows Media Video (WMV) format screen capture of Notion 3 on the Mac playing the current version of "Swirly" (Ludwig von Surf Whammy), which is 5.1MB and runs for approximately 3 minutes and 45 seconds . . . ]

http://www.surfwhammys.com/Swirly-12-7-2010-N3.wmv

Fabulous!

At first, it was a mostly melancholy song, but I added glissandi everywhere there were big intervals, and much to my general surprise instead of doing slides it actually causes chromatic notes to be played, although not on every instrument (which is a bit puzzling but is beginning to make sense based on the type of instrument), which changed the mood of the song from being melancholy to being more reminiscent of watching a happy but occasionally frantic snow storm, which fits nicely with the "anti-holiday" album, although I really want to add a DISCO and Heavy Metal segue in the middle of it (or at least some Heavy Metal double-kick drum bits, since I like the overall concept of a String, Brass, Woodwind, and Double-Kick Drum ensemble) . . .

And then I added a "Horn" and "Trumpet"doing whole note trills and later added Oboe and Bassoon, which at various times sounds more like flutes, but so what . . .

So what!

It creates a bit of motion, and the next thing I plan to do is to add some snowflake "sparkles", which probably will be tinkly things, which tends to suggest pitched percussion or plucked strings . . .

I was hoping to find a French Horn in the London Symphony Orchestra or Miroslav Philharmonik VSTi libraries, but apparently not . . .

So, these are a few thoughts on strings, brass, woodwinds, and Notion 3, and while I am a bit puzzled by the rules for glissandi and the apparent fact that some of the oboes, bassoons, horns, and trumpets tend at times to sound more like a Farfisa organ, it will make sense sooner or later, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :)

[wglmb]

Do you know what for sure means?

Anyway, as to the question of why some instruments have a continuous gliss and some don't, you have to consider that many instruments are incapable of a continuous one - piano, woodwind, and most brass, for example.

[Surfwhammy]

Do you know what for sure means?

You have piqued my interest, for sure . . .

For sure!

Anyway, as to the question of why some instruments have a continuous gliss and some don't, you have to consider that many instruments are incapable of a continuous one - piano, woodwind, and most brass, for example.

Regarding glissandi, I understand that it can be a bit difficult to do a continuous "slide" on an instrument like an oboe, clarinet, saxophone, trumpet, and so forth, but there are ways to do it, although it probably is a very advanced technique . . .

For example, consider "Concerto For Trumpet" (Harry James) in this YouTube music video . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNWxwvIwC-Q

And, of course, a slide trombone pretty much is designed for doing glissandi, as heard in this YouTube music video of "Stars and Stripes Forever" (Bones Apart) . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHw8P8NnUvI

The puzzling aspect is not so much a matter of whether it is possible to do glissandi on an instrument or how it is done (either as a true sliding pitch change or stepwise) but instead is a matter of why some instruments in the song do it but other instruments that should do it, in fact, do not do it at all . . .

My best guess is that this is a characteristic of the specific VSTi sample library for the particular instrument, since for example the Oboe and Bassoon do it stepwise, but the only string that does it is the Double Bass, and it does it stepwise rather than as a slide . . .

I did a bit of checking, and Violin I is from Miroslav Philharmonik, so I changed it to Violin I from Notion 3, which is the London Symphony Orchestra, and it does a "sliding" glissandi, which is great . . .

Great!

The glissandi the violins is not so gradual, as is the case with the London Symphony Orchestra cellos, which tends to cause them to sound a bit like shooting stars in the sense of the glissandi being slow but then zooming rapidly, so I should be able to use this behavior to create a some darting snowflake motion effects in addition to the more tinkly snowflake motion effects I will create with some type of pitched percussion, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!

P. S. So, thanks for the motivation to get a bit more information on glissandi, which definitely was very helpful . . .

Definitely!

[wglmb]

Do you know what for sure means?

You have piqued my interest, for sure . . .

For sure!

You seem to interject it (and other phrases) randomly in your posts, and I thought the one in your first post was particularly bizarre. But that's just me.

Regarding glissandi, I understand that it can be a bit difficult to do a continuous "slide" on an instrument like an oboe, clarinet, saxophone, trumpet, and so forth, but there are ways to do it, although it probably is a very advanced technique . . .

For example, consider "Concerto For Trumpet" (Harry James) in this YouTube music video . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNWxwvIwC-Q

That's not really what I'd gall glissando. It's more of a detuning of the note at its start or end (sometimes exaggerated buy giving the valves a little twiddle).

And, of course, a slide trombone pretty much is designed for doing glissandi[/url]

Obviously

the Oboe and Bassoon do it stepwise

Which is all they can do. Detuning a note isn't a gliss - same as for the trumpet.

the only string that does it is the Double Bass, and it does it stepwise rather than as a slide . . .

I agree that that is odd. It must be the vst.

I did a bit of checking, and Violin I is from Miroslav Philharmonik, so I changed it to Violin I from Notion 3, which is the London Symphony Orchestra, and it does a "sliding" glissandi, which is great . . .

Ah, so it was the vst!

[Surfwhammy]

Do you know what for sure means?

You have piqued my interest, for sure . . .

For sure!

You seem to interject it (and other phrases) randomly in your posts, and I thought the one in your first post was particularly bizarre. But that's just me.

Mostly, it is like Señor Wences having a conversation with "Johnny" and "Pedro", where they are the ones saying "For sure!", "Really!", and so forth, which is fabulous . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJiYZ6QIAtY

Fabulous!

So, depending on the particular reply, just imagine that it is spoken by "Johnny" or "Pedro" . . .

Regarding glissandi, I understand that it can be a bit difficult to do a continuous "slide" on an instrument like an oboe, clarinet, saxophone, trumpet, and so forth, but there are ways to do it, although it probably is a very advanced technique . . .

For example, consider "Concerto For Trumpet" (Harry James) in this YouTube music video . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNWxwvIwC-Q

That's not really what I'd gall glissando. It's more of a detuning of the note at its start or end (sometimes exaggerated buy giving the valves a little twiddle).

It was not the best example, but it was the only one I could find at the time, since I could not remember the name of the song I wanted to use, but after thinking about it for a day or so, I remembered the name of the song, which is "Cherry Pink And Apple Blossom White" (Perez "Prez" Prado and his Orchestra, featuring trumpeter BIlly Regis), which is heard in this YouTube music video of the 78RPM record, for sure . . .

[NOTE: I remembered the music, which is something I do in a nearly instant eidetic way, but I am not so good at remembering the titles and lyrics of songs . . . ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKIenilOCro

For sure!

At various times over the years, I have heard a few clarinet and saxophone players do the same type of glissandi, but I think it is a lot more difficult to do on those instruments, mostly because there are more individual notes and instead of having three valves (a) they have a lot of pads and (b) individual notes tend to require pressing combinations of pads that make it all the more difficult to do "slides", often at a virtually mind-boggling level of dexterity, finesse, and proficiency . . .

Pete Fountain did it every once in a while, but he saved it for spectacular moments, since it virtually guaranteed an enthusiastic crowd reaction, where you can hear him do it at the end of "Struttin' With Some BBQ" at 5:08 to 5:09 in this YouTube music video . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ba62kmk4pg

"St. James Infirmary" (Pete Fountain) has a lot of clarinet "note bending", "slides', "slurs" and so forth, which I basically consider to be different types of gilssandi, since it involves playing what I call "in-between" notes, which tends to be considerably more difficult than playing "definite" notes, but it also has step-wise phrases, of course . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz_fSW5FHeE

If I think about it a while, I probably can remember a few songs where saxophone players do a bit of glissandi, since I know I have heard it done on a saxophone at one timer or another . . .

I did a bit of checking, and Violin I is from Miroslav Philharmonik, so I changed it to Violin I from Notion 3, which is the London Symphony Orchestra, and it does a "sliding" glissandi, which is great . . .

Ah, so it was the vst!

Yes!

I checked a few more of the strings, and so far the results are (a) that Miroslav Philharmonik does not do glissandi for most of the strings but (b) that the London Symphony Orchestra (Notion 3) does glissandi for strings . . .

As noted, it appears that the glissandi done by the London Symphony Orchestra VSTi strings uses an exponential type of curve, where it begins slow but then accelerates rapidly, but there might be a way to control the shape or trajectory of the curve, since I most of the time I prefer a steady slide, which tends to be reversed, where for example on guitar the motion through the lower frequencies is faster in terms of distance but the higher frequencies are slower, since the distance between frequencies is shorter as the pitch increases, hence on guitar for an ascending glissando, you move your finger faster over the lower notes but then slower over the higher notes, although at present I have no idea how one might make the curve more linear or perhaps reversed for a VSTi . . .

In other words, on a piano you simply run your thumbnail or fingernail across the tops of the white keys at a steady speed, because the white keys are evenly spaced, but on guitar the spacing is more logarithmic or whatever, so from low to high it is faster and then slower as the distance between the frets decreases . . .

Lots of FUN!

[elerouxx]

I've been busy trying to achieve glissando right in LSO, GPO and Miroslav.

Glissando is a relative term, not always meaning a slide.
Every instrument has its own style of "glissando". When a violinist sees "glissando" in the score, he slides up or down the string. in the guitar or any fret instrument, the glissando is done sliding across the frets, but in these days you can use a sliding little tube over the strings (Ray Cooder?)
A pianist slides the finger over the white keys producing a scale, the harpist will rub all the strings also producing the scale. The trombone will slide. The clarinet is very special among the woodwinds because it can do a really good glissando (as in Rhapsody in Blue by Gershwin) but other woodwinds will just play all the notes from one note to another, chromatically.

French Horn glissandos are somewhat special because the player will play a glissando by quickly playing intermediary notes between the start and end, but because of the nature of the instrument, the sounding effect is similar to a sliding when the glissando is fast.

Back to our digital world: the word that best defines this slide-up and slide-down is 'portamento'. Many digital instruments have settings to achieve this.

Notion LSO violin, for instance, uses this technique, but it seems the portamento time is defined very short and doesn't sound good for long glissandi IMO. Since it's fixed, we can't modify or check this.

In GPO, there's a Porta tempo knob, also responding to Midi CC20, in most instruments, which has to be used with the Legato switch (the pedal or CC68) so it can be called and modified via MIDI commands. Setting it to 75% does a good job for long or mid glissandi. In Notion, a custom rule can set these parameters on while doing a glissando (I did it that way).

In Miroslav, there's a legato mode along with a portamento time, in milliseconds. The legato can't be activated via midi, but it's possible to define a channel for glissandi - for instance, duplicating the main Violin sample in channel 1 to the empty channel 12, then setting this channel with the Legato mode (which is monophonic, and essential for the portamento to work). Then, by midi, you change the channel to 12 when you are ready to play the glissando. A custom rule can also define that every time the violin will play a glissando, the channel is set to 12.

In all cases, the portamento time setting is in seconds and not notes. The vst interface doesn't know if you are doing a glissando between halfnotes or quarters, and what is the tempo in bpm, so it will need to be fine tuned for perfect glissandi every time - yet it's a good starting point.

Many of these features could be more easily set if Notion had a simple feature: a hidden element in the score that transmits a midi message to the instrument. So, just before the glissando, we'd set the portamento time and any other parameter we need so it plays perfectly.

[wcreed51]

A feature asked for many times by many people...