Record audio from external source

[Zblogny]

Hello,
I own an old Yamaha DB50XG daughter board that I converted into external synth, with a case, a PU and some electronics.
I'm trying to use it with Notion3.
I managed to send it the MIDI output from N3, and it works very well.
I would like to record the Audio output in Notion. I know I can export my MIDI file and open it in Reaper, but that would be so much easier to do everything inside N3.
In the manual I found much informations about how to send audio from N3, but nothing about how to receive audio from external source.
Is it impossible ?

[Surfwhammy]

Hello,
I own an old Yamaha DB50XG daughter board that I converted into external synth, with a case, a PU and some electronics.
I'm trying to use it with Notion3.
I managed to send it the MIDI output from N3, and it works very well.
I would like to record the Audio output in Notion. I know I can export my MIDI file and open it in Reaper, but that would be so much easier to do everything inside N3.
In the manual I found much informations about how to send audio from N3, but nothing about how to receive audio from external source.
Is it impossible ?

[NOTE: This is based on my current understanding of Notion 3, Reason 5, and Digital Performer 7 on the Mac, and while I think it is accurate, there might be a few places where it is not so accurate as I imagine it to be, but so what . . . ]

SUCCINCT ANSWER

No!

DETAILED ANSWER

You can use a MIDI keyboard to input music notation for a Notion 3 MIDI instrument, and you can import a WAVE file that Notion 3 will play as part of a score, but to the best of my knowledge Notion 3 is not a recording application, so the general answer is that it is not possible . . .

Nevertheless, one certainly can use Notion 3 as the foundation or "anchor" for a song, and it is not so difficult to do on the Mac, which I suppose also is the case with Windows machines . . .

Basically, you need to devise a system and to verify that it works correctly, which is one of the things I have done over the past eight or so months, for sure . . .

For sure!

There are quite a few rules and procedures, but once you understand everything it is straightforward . . .

One of the first steps in devising a system is to identify virtual and real instruments, since the way they are handled is very different . . .

VIRTUAL INSTRUMENTS

(1) VSTi instruments are virtual when they are played by Notion 3 based on music notation . . .

(2) MIDI instruments and other types of virtual instruments like Reason 5 (Propellerhead Software) are virtual when they are played by Notion 3 based on real-time MIDI . . .

REAL INSTRUMENTS

(1) Electric guitar, electric bass, drums, keyboards, singing, and so forth are real when they are played or sung by a person and either (a) are connected directly to a digital audio interface that converts analog signals into digital data that is fed to the computer or (b) are captured via a microphone which then is connected directly to a digital audio interface that converts analog signals into digital data that is fed to the computer . . .

(2) MIDI instruments are real when their output is analog audio, regardless of how they are played . . .

(3) Other types of instruments and voices are real when some or all of their audio output is computer-generated and converted to analog in real-time, where for example an electric guitar played through AmpliTube 3 (IK Multimedia) and a Stomp IO controller (IK Multimedia) is real when the computer-generated analog audio output is used as the source of the instrument sound . . .

[NOTE: Some of the wording for the definitions of "virtual" and "real" might be a bit ambiguous, so another way to understand it is in terms of whether you can connect it to a guitar amplifier and play (or sing into a microphone) something that is not precomposed via music notation or MIDI. If you can connect it to a guitar amplifier via a guitar or microphone cable (perhaps with a transformer or whatever to get the impedance matched), then it is a real instrument or voice, but even this is a tiny bit ambiguous, because you can play a Notion 3 score and output it to a guitar amplifier via a digital audio interface like the MOTU 828mk3, except that in this instance the Notion 3 score being output is precomposed, hence it is virtual instrument that behaves as a real instrument but with the precomposed caveat . . . ]

GENERAL RULES

So long as a virtual instrument can be controlled either directly or indirectly by Notion 3, its notes, dynamics, and articulations can be sourced in Notion 3 . . . .

[NOTE: "Sourced" in this context has a very particular usage, and it refers to the notes specifically being done in music notation within a Notion 3 project (a.k.a., "score"), where the music notation in Notion 3 is the original and definitive source or origin . . . ]

However, this does not arbitrarily map to Notion 3 being able to function as the primary controller of the virtual instrument in real-time, where for example on the Mac the only way I have been able to control Reason 5 via Notion 3 is to export the music notation for an instrument in Notion 3 as a MIDI file, which I then import to Reason 5 for purposes actually of playing a Reason 5 instrument, where the audio produced by the Reason 5 instrument played by the imported MIDI that was exported from Notion 3 is recorded in Digital Performer 7 by having Digital Performer 7 control Reason 5 via ReWire . . .

VSTi instruments that have standalone user interfaces can be used with a MIDI keyboard or other MIDI instrument separately from Notion 3, and when played this way they are real instruments, and as with all real instruments and voices an audio interface is required to digitize the analog audio so that it can be input to the computer for purposes of recording it with digital recording studio software like Digital Performer 7 (Mac-only), Reaper, Cubase, Logic Pro (Mac-only), GarageBand (Mac-only), Sonar, and so forth and so on . . .

In other words, real instruments, voices, and virtual instruments that interact with a real instrument which then generates audio signals that are digitized by an audio interface like the MOTU 828mk3 are recorded in digital audio workstation (DAW) applications rather than by Notion 3 . . .

Notion 3 generates real audio signals based on music notation and VSTi instruments, and Notion 3 can "bounce to disk" as well as export MIDI instructions, but Notion 3 is not a DAW application, so the simple way to understand this is that Notion 3 generates audio but does not record it other than being able to export it as a WAVE file or as a MIDI file . . .

From my perspective, the important thing is that everything which is virtual needs to be sourced either directly or indirectly by Notion 3 in music notation, and for the most part I do not care how this is done, since my focus is on being able to do it rather than on how it specifically is done . . .

For VSTi instruments, sourcing directly in Notion 3 via music notation is straightforward, but for non-VSTi instruments like Reason 5, sourcing is done indirectly in Notion 3 on the Mac, where the procedure begins by creating the music notation in Notion 3 and continues by exporting the notes and so forth for the instrument in MIDI format where it is input to Reason 5 for purposes actually of playing the Reason 5 instrument, and then the Reason 5 instrument is recorded in Digital Performer 7 as a soundbite by controlling Reason 5 via ReWire where Digital Performer 7 instructs Reason 5 to play its instrument, with the digital output from Reason 5 being sent directly to Digital Performer 7 where it is recorded as a soundbite . . .

Both ways have Notion 3 as the ultimate source of the music notation, but the non-VSTi procedure requires some intermediate steps, which while taking a few minutes are not so cumbersome as to be annoying or impractical . . .

The only annoying aspect is that it typically takes a while to load Digital Performer 7, Notion 3, and Reason 5, which becomes a bit cumbersome due to the fact that on the Mac it is not simply a matter of loading each of them one time only, in part because Reason 5 is not a ReWire controller and depending on the way one is using Notion 3 its configuration with respect to being ReWire enabled or disabled is very significant for purposes of determining the order in which everything is launched . . .

Without going into too much detail, the simplest strategy is to close everything and then to launch at most two of the three applications (Digital Performer 7, Notion 3, Reason 5) in a particular sequence depending specifically on what you need to do at the moment . . .

There is a way on the Mac that one can run all three at one time, where Digital Performer 7 is launched first and becomes the ReWire controller, with Notion 3 being launched second and operating as a ReWire slave, while Reason 5 is launched last and also operates as a ReWire slave, but it is pretty strange and there is no actual point to doing it this way insofar as I have been able to determine . . .

Another way is to disable the ReWIre option for Notion 3 in Preferences, and to close and reopen Notion 3, at which time it is not affected by Reason 5 and Digital Performer 7, but even then it is important to open Digital Performer 7 first before opening Reason 5 when Digital Performer 7 needs to be the ReWire controller application, although you can open Reason 5 first and then open Digital Performer 7 but done this way Digital Performer 7 will not be the ReWire controller for Reason 5 . . .

Explained another way there are two ways that you can source or originate virtual instruments in Notion 3 on the Mac, which by changing the DAW can be done in Windows, as well, although I have not verified this on a Windows machine:

(1) You can write music notation in Notion 3 and use it directly in Notion 3 to play VSTi instruments, which you can record in Digital Performer 7 by controlling Notion 3 via ReWire once you get all the music notation input and are happy with it . . .

(2) You can write music notation in Notion 3 and export it as a MIDI file, which you can import to Reason 5 for purposes of playing a Reason 5 instrument, which you subsequently can record as a soundbite in Digital Performer 7 by controlling Reason 5 via ReWire when you are happy with it . . .

[NOTE: I have verified this on the Mac (OS X 10.6.6) for Digital Performer 7.22, which is the DAW I use. It works equally well with GarageBand (Apple), and it probably works equally well with Logic Pro (Apple), but I have not verified it with Logic Pro. I have not verified the ReWire aspects for Reaper on the Mac, and I have not tried any other DAW software on the Mac . . . ]

Both of these strategies require some procedures that include intermediate steps, since getting the Notion 3 generated audio into Digital Performer 7 via ReWire requires setting the outputs of the Notion 3 tracks to ReWire channels, which has the consequence of making it impossible to hear the instruments when Notion 3 is running standalone, so I typically have two Notion 3 projects for the same score, where one outputs to the Notion 3 Master output and the other outputs to ReWire channels, although since I now limit Notion 3 scores to 20 instruments and have devised a procedure for switching from ReWire channels to Master output, it becomes possible to avoid having two projects for the same time, although when there are 20 instruments and I want to send all of them to Digital Performer 7 via ReWire, I have to "click and select" the ReWire channel for the Notion 3 tracks 20 times to set it for ReWire use and then "click and select" the Master output 20 times (once for each of the 20 tracks, hence 20 times) to deselect it for ReWire, which is a bit annoying but does not take so long now that I do everything in sequential order starting with the 11-12 ReWire channel pair for the first Notion 3 track and continue in sequence from left-to-right on the Notion 3 Mixer, which overall maps approximately 40 "click and select" actions for the roundtrip (Master-to-ReWire and ReWire-to-Master), half of which require scrolling through the list of ReWire channels . . .

Additionally, on the Mac I have to put four empty measures at the start of the Notion 3 score, and when controlling Notion 3 with Digital Performer 7.22 I have to start no earlier than the beginning of the fifth measure, otherwise Digital Performer 7.22 crashes and then Notion 3 goes into La La Land. And it is important to avoid using ReWIre channels 1 through 10 inclusive, but so what . . .

So what!

Setting the ReWire channels and switching them back to Master output manually works, and after doing it quite a few times, it only takes a minute or so if you are a skilled mouser . . .

SUMMARY

If it is a real instrument or voice, then you need to record it with DAW software, where the analog output is digitized by an audio interface like the MOTU 828mk3, and this also applies (a) to a real MIDI instrument that uses a standalone VSTi or virtual synth like Reason 5 via interfacing with a computer and (b) to an hybrid VST like AmpliTube 3 and the Stomp IO controller where the audio output ultimately comes from analog output of the hybrid VST . . .

If it is a virtual instrument controlled either directly or indirectly by Notion 3, then if its output is generated by Notion 3, you can export it as a WAVE file, but you cannot record it in Notion 3 . . .

However, you can record MIDI for an instrument in Notion 3, but what you are recording is MIDI instructions rather than the audio output of the MIDI instrument, and the MIDI instructions are converted by Notion 3 to music notation, with the result of this specific type of MIDI recording and converting being music notation rather audio . . .

And regarding the obvious question, the fact of the matter is that Notion 3 is doing so much highly intensive computing that it simply is impractical to expect Notion 3 also to function as a full-featured DAW, because another fact of the matter is that a DAW is doing so much highly intensive computing that the converse is true, where it might be interesting to have a "does everything" application in an Utopian universe, but it is not very practical at present . . .

When everything is 64-bit and one has a high-end supercomputer, it might be practical if all the various software specifically is programmed for optimal multiprocessing, multiprogramming, multitasking, multithreading, multicore, and so forth and so on, as well as for at least partial parallel computing, but none of this is likely to happen anytime soon, since it requires so much software engineering skill and expertise that nearly nobody can do it or is willing to pay people who are able to do it enough to get them to do it . . .

Intel and some of the other processor designers and manufacturers are devising ways to make essentially sequentially designed step-wise applications work in some respects as if they were designed for parallel computing, but taking advantage of it tends to require the applications to be revisited, where one example is doing elaborate vector array processing, where certain types of work are done by a special processor that focuses on SIMD (Simple Instruction Multiple Data) work, where one can do the same simple instruction to a bunch of data essentially all at once by doing it in parallel or whatever . . .

Whatever!

Intel and AMD are working on Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX) which expands on SIMD, and some of their first processors featuring this technology are scheduled for release this year (2011), but putting the hardware and firmware on a processor and providing the documentation and language compilers for using it is entirely different from an application actually doing anything with it . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions#CPUs_with_AVX

There is a lot of this stuff on the horizon, and quite a few applications will be using at least some of it in the not so distant future, but there is a great difference in being "64-bit compatible" when an application essentially is run in a "32-bit sandbox" and actually being fully 64-bits in every respect, including being optimized for advanced parallel computing using highly specialized vector array processors and so forth and so on . . .

Another reality is that even if every application were completely and totally optimized for everything, being able to run the applications will require a high-end computer which probably will cost somewhere in the range of $5,000 to $10,000 . . .

The sensible solution is to focus on discovering how to do things in a practical way that produces consistently reliable and verifiably repeatable results, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!

P. S. The reason that being able to use Notion 3 as the originating or "source" document is important is very simple when you consider it from the perspective of Computer Science, although it might be simple only if you view things from this perspective . . .

NOTION 3 IS THE SOURCE DOCUMENT

Effectively, the music notation and various VSTi instrument settings in a Notion 3 score define the way the resulting audio is generated, which from a Computer Science perspective (a) makes music notation a programming language and (b) makes the various VSTi instrument settings similar to compiler options, parameters, initial values for variables, and so forth . . .

Hence, if you decide to change the "program" (which in this instance is the Notion 3 score), then you can do this by changing the music notation (which is the "programming language"), and this might include making some adjustments to the various VSTi instruments or just as easily can include adding new VSTi instruments for which you then create new music notation, all of which changes the originating or "source document", which then is used to generate everything else in the virtual side of the overall system . . .

[NOTE: The focus here is on what in Computer Science is called "version control", where the general idea is to have a definitive source document that is controlled very carefully over time with respect to changes and so forth, with the result that if you need to rebuild an application or database, then you can do it very accurately and precisely by starting with the definitive source documents and then performing well-defined procedures, where an example of this is found in another topic in this FORUM where several people created different versions of a song using a variety of orchestral VSTi instrument libraries based on one Notion 3 score, which was the "source" document in this terminology, where the link to the topic in this FORUM is provided following this note . . . ]

http://forum.notionmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1403

When the changes are completed, you can generate a new set of audio that can be recorded in the DAW, and if everything is done with a well-defined and repeatable set of procedures, then the result is very consistent in the sense of being able to create a new set of recorded audio tracks in the DAW with great precision, since everything is done under computer control, although there are a few manual steps involved (launching the DAW, configuring tracks for ReWire and recording, and so forth) . . .

This is very different from the way it works when one is dealing with real instruments and vocals, since in great contrast real instruments and vocals are played and sung by people, with the consequence that no two performances will be exactly the same in every respect, which maps to the fact that if you do it hundreds of times over and over and over, you get hundreds of different versions, none of which are identical, which is very different from the music notation and VSTi "basic rhythm section" strategy, where every time you repeat the audio generation, you get exactly the same thing in every respect . . .

For example, consider that you start a new song by composing eight measures and then do the audio generating and recording in the DAW via ReWire . . .

After a while, you decide to add a few more measures, which you do, and then you can do a new set of soundbites in the DAW using the same well-defined set of procedures, and so forth and so on . . .

If you did everything with real instruments, then adding a few more measures is considerably more complex, since either (a) you need to play and record all the instrument tracks based on the newly revised song or (b) you need to play and record all the new measures for the instrument tracks and then devise a way to splice them into what already was recorded . . .

Both of these can be done (playing and recording everything a new time or splicing and overdubbing new material), but I think it makes more sense to limit these activities to as few times as necessary, which is where the "basic rhythm section" aspect becomes important, since by doing the framework for a song via a Notion 3 "basic rhythm section" you are able to minimize the number of times that real instruments and singing need to be recorded, which is very important when one person is doing everything . . .

Nevertheless, it is a flexible system, because if you decide to add an interlude to a song when there already are real instruments and singing recorded, you can revise the "basic rhythm section" and then do a bit of splicing and overdubbing to add newly recorded real instruments and singing while keeping the already recorded real instruments and singing, or you can redo all the real instruments and singing based on the new "basic rhythm section", because a key aspect of the system is that everything is anchored to the Notion 3 "basic rhythm section", including the recorded tracks for the real instruments and singing, which makes splicing and overdubbing considerably easier, since the "anchoring" is done via measures on a timeline . . .

And in the specific instance where the real instruments map primarily (a) to one or two melody instruments (for example, lead guitar and a keyboard synthesizer or electric piano) and (b) to singing, then doing everything else with music notation and VSTi and other types of virtual instruments (for example, non-VSTi Reason 5 synths) makes it a very efficient and easily revised and repeated system, which in turn makes it practical and productive, for sure . . .

For sure!